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Stock JK TechBulletin board forum regarding issues with OE (original equipment) components of the Jeep JK Wrangler (Rubicon, Sahara, Unlimited and X) such as factory suspension parts, engine, transmission, body parts, interior fixtures and the on-board computer.
Good evening!
I have a lifted jeep jk and wanting to go back to stock height. Does anyone happen to have some stock coils/shocks laying around I can buy off of you? It’s difficult trying to find some where I’m at. Or if anyone has any tips on going back to stock. I’m tired of dealing with issues of the lift I have on it currently. Thank you!
I’m tired of dealing with issues of the lift I have on it currently.
What kind of issues are you having?
If you were in a large metropolitan area you could typically find this sort of stuff for practically free, but I have shipped springs in the past and boy, not cheap. You'd likely be better off just buying new springs than sticking something that is, at a minimum, 6-7 years old already, and more likely ~8-12 years old from what someone has laying around.
Happy to try to help resolve issues you might be having though. it might be cheaper.
If you were in a large metropolitan area you could typically find this sort of stuff for practically free, but I have shipped springs in the past and boy, not cheap. You'd likely be better off just buying new springs than sticking something that is, at a minimum, 6-7 years old already, and more likely ~8-12 years old from what someone has laying around.
Happy to try to help resolve issues you might be having though. it might be cheaper.
good point! My jeep steering is super loose. I’ve tried a new steering gear box, didn’t seem to do it and adjusting tire pressure. My tires just screech now. They are set at 30. I have 35” ko2s on it. I need to get it aligned but it’s hard to find a good place here in Fairbanks Alaska. The lift on it is I believe a crappy rough country brand. I’ve read bad things about it and can see why. I have a drop pitman arm on it and from what I read that causes a lot of issues. Idk if I need to lose that with stock but idk what I need to do if I do lose it. I’ll post pictures when I get off work of what I have
Y, you're on the right track with lot of that thinking. If you have a drop pitman arm I'm guessing you're on a 3.5" lift. The real problem with that particular component is on our wranglers, it's always better to raise axle side mounts than it is to drop the frame side mounts. When you start dropping the frame side you start lowering your roll-center and that is definitely something that translates directly to driveability. It's a common thing to do in pickups, and Rough Country's bread and butter is really lifted pickup trucks IMO, so they try to translate that over to the wrangler platforms and it's just a terrible thing. What most of us do instead when achieving a "high steer" setup is we flip the drag link to the top of the knuckle (requires a new drag link that can be mounted in that orientation) and use a raised track bar bracket on the axle, leaving the frame side mounts for the TB and DL alone. To get rid of that drop pitman arm, you'd need to revert back to a factory pitman arm (not pricey) and then flip the drag link up to the top of the knuckle (requires drilling the knuckle and using a tapered sleeve, and possibly a new DL if what you have can't be re-positioned). You should already have a raised TB bracket on the axle with that current setup. Hopefully you do not have a lowered frame-side bracket.
I'd also question what kind of caster correction you have with that lift. That is typically the biggest thing leading to a crappy ride. Adjustable control arms? control arm brackets? cam bolts?
The screeching tires sounds mainly like toe-in out of spec to me. Even at a lower psi those tires shouldn't be screeching.
**a couple pictures from the front end could help. we could at least see what you're working with and give some options on moving forward. The reality though is that it could take a little money, regardless of path, to remedy or improve the situation. If you love the jeep and plan to own it for a while then it would likely be money and effort well spent.
Y, you're on the right track with lot of that thinking. If you have a drop pitman arm I'm guessing you're on a 3.5" lift. The real problem with that particular component is on our wranglers, it's always better to raise axle side mounts than it is to drop the frame side mounts. When you start dropping the frame side you start lowering your roll-center and that is definitely something that translates directly to driveability. It's a common thing to do in pickups, and Rough Country's bread and butter is really lifted pickup trucks IMO, so they try to translate that over to the wrangler platforms and it's just a terrible thing. What most of us do instead when achieving a "high steer" setup is we flip the drag link to the top of the knuckle (requires a new drag link that can be mounted in that orientation) and use a raised track bar bracket on the axle, leaving the frame side mounts for the TB and DL alone. To get rid of that drop pitman arm, you'd need to revert back to a factory pitman arm (not pricey) and then flip the drag link up to the top of the knuckle (requires drilling the knuckle and using a tapered sleeve, and possibly a new DL if what you have can't be re-positioned). You should already have a raised TB bracket on the axle with that current setup. Hopefully you do not have a lowered frame-side bracket.
I'd also question what kind of caster correction you have with that lift. That is typically the biggest thing leading to a crappy ride. Adjustable control arms? control arm brackets? cam bolts?
The screeching tires sounds mainly like toe-in out of spec to me. Even at a lower psi those tires shouldn't be screeching.
**a couple pictures from the front end could help. we could at least see what you're working with and give some options on moving forward. The reality though is that it could take a little money, regardless of path, to remedy or improve the situation. If you love the jeep and plan to own it for a while then it would likely be money and effort well spent.
so it looks like I do have a raised TB bracket on the axel side. So you think I can ditch the drop pitman arm and flip the drag link? I love this jeep been lately it’s making me hate it when I drive it lol I have attached pictures of my front end. Thank you so much for the direction.
Few comments. First, I'd take a quick measurement here so you can know exactly how much your lifted over stock. I think it has to be a 3.5" lift since using a drop pitman.
Yes, my advice would be to get rid of that drop pitman arm and revert back to factory. If you stay at that lift height, you'd then need to flip the drag link up to the top of the knuckle. Your current DL would not be compatible. You'd have to purchase a new drag link, or at the very least that left side of a drag link. SteerSmarts makes a Yeti26 no-drill option wich is just that end and it screws right into that turnbuckle. The stud on the ball joint end is a bit more narrow and will go right into the knuckle. I had one of these at a point in the past and it was fine. Other drag links that can be mounted in both orientations will require you to reem the hole in the knuckle and then you drop a tapered insert into that hole and mount the DL. That may or may not be a big deal to you. Either way, to do a "high-steer" setup you need to keep that TB and DL running parallel. Raise the TB by 3" and now you need to raise the DL by 3". The benefit here is you keep the angle of those bars flatter and that is more advantageous, and closer to how they were at factory lift height.
I can only tell you have factory upper control arms. I can't see the lowers. Snap a picture from the side behind the front tire so we can see how the lower arm is running from the axle to the frame. Caster is a huge factor in how the jeep steers and handles. From the factory caster is 4.2°. When you lift a JK 3.5", that reduces caster to ~2.8-2.9° which is pretty crappy, unless you then "correct" caster back higher via adjustable control arms, control arm brackets, or gawd forbid cam bolts. If you don't have a firm grasp on what caster is, this is the simplest diagram -
As you lift the jeep, the body moves higher while the axle stays in the same spot.....so as the jeep goes up, the axle housing rotates forward. Caster is that line through the C and the ball joints, so as the axle rotates forward, that line gets closer to being straight up and down (caster would be 0° with the line straight up and down). A change from 4.2° to 2.8° might not sound like much, but that is a huge difference. That is why I am interested to see what you have going on with the lower control arms. If you have no caster correction and are rolling around with low caster, then correcting that will make a huge improvement.
Finally, that dual steering stabilizer isn't really helping much. I'd never advise someone to put one of those on. that said, it's not really the source of your issue. People add those things to try and "tighten up" steering, when in reality all they are doing is covering things up. When there is a problem in the steering linkage (loose bolts, bad joints) you want to know about that ASAP so you can get it corrected. Big steering stabilizers do nothing but "mask" problems, allowing them to continue deteriorating until things get to catastrophic levels. The reality is the jeep SHOULD drive fine with no SS at all if it's set up correctly. The SS should just be the last piece of the puzzle in the steering system that helps keep things in harmony. You really just want the cheapest, wimpiest thing there. Oddly the factory unit was really good for that. Something that is oil filled and not gas-charged. You want equal resistance expanding and contracting rather than a gas-charged unit that is working with all it's might to expand.
Few comments. First, I'd take a quick measurement here so you can know exactly how much your lifted over stock. I think it has to be a 3.5" lift since using a drop pitman.
Yes, my advice would be to get rid of that drop pitman arm and revert back to factory. If you stay at that lift height, you'd then need to flip the drag link up to the top of the knuckle. Your current DL would not be compatible. You'd have to purchase a new drag link, or at the very least that left side of a drag link. SteerSmarts makes a Yeti26 no-drill option wich is just that end and it screws right into that turnbuckle. The stud on the ball joint end is a bit more narrow and will go right into the knuckle. I had one of these at a point in the past and it was fine. Other drag links that can be mounted in both orientations will require you to reem the hole in the knuckle and then you drop a tapered insert into that hole and mount the DL. That may or may not be a big deal to you. Either way, to do a "high-steer" setup you need to keep that TB and DL running parallel. Raise the TB by 3" and now you need to raise the DL by 3". The benefit here is you keep the angle of those bars flatter and that is more advantageous, and closer to how they were at factory lift height.
I can only tell you have factory upper control arms. I can't see the lowers. Snap a picture from the side behind the front tire so we can see how the lower arm is running from the axle to the frame. Caster is a huge factor in how the jeep steers and handles. From the factory caster is 4.2°. When you lift a JK 3.5", that reduces caster to ~2.8-2.9° which is pretty crappy, unless you then "correct" caster back higher via adjustable control arms, control arm brackets, or gawd forbid cam bolts. If you don't have a firm grasp on what caster is, this is the simplest diagram -
As you lift the jeep, the body moves higher while the axle stays in the same spot.....so as the jeep goes up, the axle housing rotates forward. Caster is that line through the C and the ball joints, so as the axle rotates forward, that line gets closer to being straight up and down (caster would be 0° with the line straight up and down). A change from 4.2° to 2.8° might not sound like much, but that is a huge difference. That is why I am interested to see what you have going on with the lower control arms. If you have no caster correction and are rolling around with low caster, then correcting that will make a huge improvement.
Finally, that dual steering stabilizer isn't really helping much. I'd never advise someone to put one of those on. that said, it's not really the source of your issue. People add those things to try and "tighten up" steering, when in reality all they are doing is covering things up. When there is a problem in the steering linkage (loose bolts, bad joints) you want to know about that ASAP so you can get it corrected. Big steering stabilizers do nothing but "mask" problems, allowing them to continue deteriorating until things get to catastrophic levels. The reality is the jeep SHOULD drive fine with no SS at all if it's set up correctly. The SS should just be the last piece of the puzzle in the steering system that helps keep things in harmony. You really just want the cheapest, wimpiest thing there. Oddly the factory unit was really good for that. Something that is oil filled and not gas-charged. You want equal resistance expanding and contracting rather than a gas-charged unit that is working with all it's might to expand.
Anyhow, that is the short lesson for the day
short lesson for the day lmao. And yeah I believe they are factory control arms. When I got my jeep aligned last the person doing really had no idea what she was doing I think lol. It looked like she did adjust something on the lower control arms. Are they easily to replace if I were to get adjustable ones? Here’s the pictures of the arms. No the greatest photos but I tried
yes, all factory arms there. So, these are cam bolts -
They do offer a small bit of caster adjustment, but not for a 3.5" lift. I'd wager a guess that even with cam bolts you're around 3-3.1° caster. If that is a 3.5" lift (haven't reported any measurements) then your caster would have gone to 2.8-2.9°, and cam bolts are only able to adjust caster +/-1.5°, at least that is my understanding. The point here being that 1) your caster is definitely low, and 2) cam bolts aren't any good.
When people install cam bolts, slots in the axle's bracket are knocked out to allow them. When getting rid of cam bolts you know how these bit holes in the axle brackets you have to fill in to use a normal bolt again. They make "cam bolt eliminator kits" that will help do this. They can look different, but the principle is the same....they will give you 1 nice round hole again. I'd probably want to do small welds to hold them in place. Here is just one example, but if you search you'll see all sorts of options -
You asked about adjustable control arms. Given you do not have great places to get an alignment, and the fact that adjustable control arms can take some tweaking to get the correct lengths, I might suggest control arm brackets as well. They would be cheaper and are easier to install. You simply remove the control arms from the frame-side mounts, install the brackets, and then bolt the control arms up to the brackets. These will lower those control arms to a flatter angle and provide a much more comfortable ride in addition to raising that caster back up. You'd want something with various mounting options (3 holes) in the brackets. Rancho makes a nice 1-piece design, or there is AEV, Metalcloak, and other cheaper options like Rubicon Express. Gosh, these Ranchos used to be $150 -
I do think that getting rid of that pitman arm and getting your caster corrected would make a pretty big difference in how the jeep is driving.
The other option is you lower that jeep back down, which is what you were originally wanting to do. My only point with that is you'd be better off just buying some small brand new kit rather than decade old used factory springs. Considering that you might have to replace shocks due to being too long, get a track bar that can adjust shorter (yours looks to not have much more room to shorten), etc.....you might be about the same price invested to do that. It's all food for thought at least.
07-07-2024, 11:12 PM
Stock suspension parts
