Are Jeep's made from crap?
03-06-2009, 03:23 PM
#81
I think some posters are being too hard on the OP. If mine turned out to be one of those lemon JK's I would've been pissed and would've asked the same question he did. F$ck Chrysler for providing 1) subpar products and most importantly 2) horrible customer service. Like I said before I got a good JK but I have sympathy for those who got the lemon.
Whether the Iraqi Defense Ministers here want to recognize it or not, there was a HUGE number of defective Wrangler vehicles that were produced from 2007-2009. I've been Jeeping for many years and have participated in many many boards and the degree of issues and number that are present on this board and all other JK boards is tremendously different than I have ever seen. It is really easy to see that there is more than uninformed buying going on. There are clearly design defects and manufacturing errors combined with a shotty dealer network and poor corporate customer service.
03-06-2009, 05:31 PM
#84
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I agree.
Whether the Iraqi Defense Ministers here want to recognize it or not, there was a HUGE number of defective Wrangler vehicles that were produced from 2007-2009. I've been Jeeping for many years and have participated in many many boards and the degree of issues and number that are present on this board and all other JK boards is tremendously different than I have ever seen. It is really easy to see that there is more than uninformed buying going on. There are clearly design defects and manufacturing errors combined with a shotty dealer network and poor corporate customer service.
Whether the Iraqi Defense Ministers here want to recognize it or not, there was a HUGE number of defective Wrangler vehicles that were produced from 2007-2009. I've been Jeeping for many years and have participated in many many boards and the degree of issues and number that are present on this board and all other JK boards is tremendously different than I have ever seen. It is really easy to see that there is more than uninformed buying going on. There are clearly design defects and manufacturing errors combined with a shotty dealer network and poor corporate customer service.
Again I know this isn't everyone but I have been a member of this forum since jan. of 07 and have read thousands of posts. A lot of the problems you read on here fall into three categories. 1. Self induced problems. The person broke it and won't admit it and blames Chrysler. 2. Inept Dealerships that just can't fix it right like they should. 3. OCD on the part of the owner. Some people go crazy at every little chirp, squeak, or thump and start foaming at the mouth.
I know there are lots of serious people and serious problems. However if you read other vehicle forums you will find the same issue and the same amount of problems. Some people are never happy no matter what and have to make a place to vent.
03-06-2009, 08:50 PM
#85
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03-08-2009, 11:07 AM
#86
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This thread is fantastic! 
Buckle up for my (slightly long winded) 2 cents!
I think the OP maybe should have got an FJ. All the FJ owners out here in Dubai seem to like bashing JK owners. They are ALL in denial about the FJ problems and say Toyota's are the best and NEVER brake. Take one trip to an FJ forum and you can see that its pretty much the same as JK forum, only slightly ghayer! (Any FJer feel free to chime in and I will be happy to give more than my 2 cents on this one!)
Reason I found this post is today my mate lost his transmission on his six speed manual 2007 JK while we were smashing through the desert close to where we live in Dubai. He didn't physically loose it, obviously, but he could shift into all gears without the clutch and it wouldn't go anywhere, no gear would engage in 4 L or H. Could be busted shift linkage or broken clutch, don't know yet? I towed him out to the road (through some crazy dunes mind you!) and roadside assistance came and towed it to the mod shop. While there it will be put back to stock and taken down to the stealership for warranty claim!
I, on the other hand, have had no issues with my JK that has now done 17,000 Kms. I have a 3.5" RE lift, 35's, 4.88's, K&N intake, Borla exhaust. All mods done before 2000 kms. To come will be a hypertech programmer, performance cat or straight through down pipe and possibly a super charger, although I am happy with the performance I get presently.
My main point is this; my friend who lost his tranny today abuses his JK. He seriously puts it through hell everytime we hit the desert or trail. He gives it way more than it ever should have dished out to it in it's current setup. All he has is 2" OE lift kit and set of 33" tires. He drops his tranny and then says, it's just sh!t isn't it? And I said "NO, it isn't, but you sure treat it like sh!t."
Thing we all forget is it's a road registered vehicle with off road capability. Unfortunately, and this may come as a shock to some of you, it is not meant to be abused off-road in the same vane as a sand-rail, quad bike or Dakar equipped Pajero Evolution (that has won the last 7 Dakar Rally's) is. Now I know some of you with issues will reply and say that you only drive it to the mall and this is still wrong and this is still wrong and whatever. Ok, there will be legitimate lemons out there, no doubt, but I think the main issue is that if you smash up your wheels on the trails all the time and put it through more than it is capable of then it will suffer and there is no one to blame other than yourself.
A couple of examples of JK mods may highlight what I mean when I say, "more than it is capable of;"
1. I hear a lot of ppl saying that they have lifted their JK but I haven't heard many post up that due to the lift and the increase in driveline angle, they have also replaced the drive shafts to suit; or
2. Due to the bigger tires and new rims which have increased the backspacing and widened my track by 2.5" I have also upgraded my stock axles to ensure hitting heavy ruts at speed will not be a problem with my stock axles.
You see every action (mod) on a stock setup has an equal and opposite reaction or flow on effect. A mod to increase off-road performance, if not thoroughly thought through, could wreak havoc to your durability in the long term (20,000+kms). Something changes, something else will be effected, its that simple. This is why the dealer is reluctant to come to the, "please fix my modded JK" party.
My suggestion to avoid disappointment and the dealership cold shoulder is; make sure you remember that you have an offroad capable road vehicle and cross the t's and dot the i's when it comes to modifying your JK to ensure you have covered all the flow on effects and have built up a capable vehicle that is in line with what you want to put it through.
Finally, don't allow some teething problems such as water leaks, bad tire sensors, misaligned shift linkages or even bigger issue such as, dare I say, a broken gearbox to turn you into an FJ praising wannabe!
Buckle up for my (slightly long winded) 2 cents!
I think the OP maybe should have got an FJ. All the FJ owners out here in Dubai seem to like bashing JK owners. They are ALL in denial about the FJ problems and say Toyota's are the best and NEVER brake. Take one trip to an FJ forum and you can see that its pretty much the same as JK forum, only slightly ghayer! (Any FJer feel free to chime in and I will be happy to give more than my 2 cents on this one!)
Reason I found this post is today my mate lost his transmission on his six speed manual 2007 JK while we were smashing through the desert close to where we live in Dubai. He didn't physically loose it, obviously, but he could shift into all gears without the clutch and it wouldn't go anywhere, no gear would engage in 4 L or H. Could be busted shift linkage or broken clutch, don't know yet? I towed him out to the road (through some crazy dunes mind you!) and roadside assistance came and towed it to the mod shop. While there it will be put back to stock and taken down to the stealership for warranty claim!
I, on the other hand, have had no issues with my JK that has now done 17,000 Kms. I have a 3.5" RE lift, 35's, 4.88's, K&N intake, Borla exhaust. All mods done before 2000 kms. To come will be a hypertech programmer, performance cat or straight through down pipe and possibly a super charger, although I am happy with the performance I get presently.
My main point is this; my friend who lost his tranny today abuses his JK. He seriously puts it through hell everytime we hit the desert or trail. He gives it way more than it ever should have dished out to it in it's current setup. All he has is 2" OE lift kit and set of 33" tires. He drops his tranny and then says, it's just sh!t isn't it? And I said "NO, it isn't, but you sure treat it like sh!t."
Thing we all forget is it's a road registered vehicle with off road capability. Unfortunately, and this may come as a shock to some of you, it is not meant to be abused off-road in the same vane as a sand-rail, quad bike or Dakar equipped Pajero Evolution (that has won the last 7 Dakar Rally's) is. Now I know some of you with issues will reply and say that you only drive it to the mall and this is still wrong and this is still wrong and whatever. Ok, there will be legitimate lemons out there, no doubt, but I think the main issue is that if you smash up your wheels on the trails all the time and put it through more than it is capable of then it will suffer and there is no one to blame other than yourself.
A couple of examples of JK mods may highlight what I mean when I say, "more than it is capable of;"
1. I hear a lot of ppl saying that they have lifted their JK but I haven't heard many post up that due to the lift and the increase in driveline angle, they have also replaced the drive shafts to suit; or
2. Due to the bigger tires and new rims which have increased the backspacing and widened my track by 2.5" I have also upgraded my stock axles to ensure hitting heavy ruts at speed will not be a problem with my stock axles.
You see every action (mod) on a stock setup has an equal and opposite reaction or flow on effect. A mod to increase off-road performance, if not thoroughly thought through, could wreak havoc to your durability in the long term (20,000+kms). Something changes, something else will be effected, its that simple. This is why the dealer is reluctant to come to the, "please fix my modded JK" party.
My suggestion to avoid disappointment and the dealership cold shoulder is; make sure you remember that you have an offroad capable road vehicle and cross the t's and dot the i's when it comes to modifying your JK to ensure you have covered all the flow on effects and have built up a capable vehicle that is in line with what you want to put it through.
Finally, don't allow some teething problems such as water leaks, bad tire sensors, misaligned shift linkages or even bigger issue such as, dare I say, a broken gearbox to turn you into an FJ praising wannabe!
03-08-2009, 11:33 AM
#87
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yep they are crap, just read any magazine article and they tell you anything made in America is crap.
Even our government is telling us we are crap.
Guess what I love my crap.
The OP should just trade it in on a BMW.
Even our government is telling us we are crap.
Guess what I love my crap.
The OP should just trade it in on a BMW.
03-08-2009, 11:49 AM
#88
I think a major part of the problem is the addition of the 4-door which was a blessing and a curse at the same time.
The "Jeeper" who has owned Wranglers in the past and needs a bigger vehicle for the expanding family, now has a choice, and doesn't notice the cheap plastic as he or she is hosing the mud off of it in their driveway. It's a Jeep thing" when the cheap interior scratches or there is a new clunk coming from somewhere underneath the hood.
The "Non-Jeeper" who trades in their Honda Accord for the cool looking 4-door SUV is the one that is expecting perfection and pretty brushed aluminum trim, leather, etc and complains about everything.
I know when the price of the fully loaded Saharas and Rubis push $37,000, people are going to expect more... that they aren't going to get from a Jeep. That is why we will see a lot of them on used car lots in the future.
The "Jeeper" who has owned Wranglers in the past and needs a bigger vehicle for the expanding family, now has a choice, and doesn't notice the cheap plastic as he or she is hosing the mud off of it in their driveway. It's a Jeep thing" when the cheap interior scratches or there is a new clunk coming from somewhere underneath the hood.
The "Non-Jeeper" who trades in their Honda Accord for the cool looking 4-door SUV is the one that is expecting perfection and pretty brushed aluminum trim, leather, etc and complains about everything.
I know when the price of the fully loaded Saharas and Rubis push $37,000, people are going to expect more... that they aren't going to get from a Jeep. That is why we will see a lot of them on used car lots in the future.
03-08-2009, 12:19 PM
#89
JK Super Freak
Well i bought an 08 jk 2dr X base of all base models to see if i would like it. Well i do. I have had zero problems and it has never been back to the dealer. It will be a year old in a few weeks with 14,000 km on it and now that i have decided to keep it i will start to mod it out and turn it into a jeep. I was always a little concerned about jeep ownership after reading this forum for while, there are a lot of whiners and some legitimate concerns but for the most part i do not think the jk is crap and it doesn't mater what brand you buy there will be issues, Had to have a new engine put in my bmw after 5000 km.
my only advise to people is to think about what they are whining about before they post. my jeep is great and just ordered a trek top for it and i bet it will leak but not as bad as when the hard top is sitting at home.
For the legit stuff find a dealer you can work with and have fun. if not get rid of it and get somthing else.
my only advise to people is to think about what they are whining about before they post. my jeep is great and just ordered a trek top for it and i bet it will leak but not as bad as when the hard top is sitting at home.
For the legit stuff find a dealer you can work with and have fun. if not get rid of it and get somthing else.
03-08-2009, 08:49 PM
#90
JK Super Freak
I think a major part of the problem is the addition of the 4-door which was a blessing and a curse at the same time.
The "Non-Jeeper" who trades in their Honda Accord for the cool looking 4-door SUV is the one that is expecting perfection and pretty brushed aluminum trim, leather, etc and complains about everything.
:
The "Non-Jeeper" who trades in their Honda Accord for the cool looking 4-door SUV is the one that is expecting perfection and pretty brushed aluminum trim, leather, etc and complains about everything.
:
The problem with the introduction of the 4 door was that, prior to this, there was a fairly limited market for 2-door 4WD's, and this market was predominantly comprised of serious off-roading folk who knew exactly what they wanted in a hard-core 4WD and were also aware of the compromises they'd have to make in comfort, on-road performance and handling.
The 4-door opened up the market to people who would normally have gone for an SUV or soft-roader, and suddenly deceided to buy a Wrangler based solely on it's looks and "cool-factor" and seemed to have no idea they were buying an off-road vehicle with limited (but certainly better than previous models) on-road capability.
Rediculous comments such as "I find it hard to fit child seats to my wrangler" and "the ride is so harsh and bouncy on those crude old solid axles; why doesn't it have independant suspension?", not to mention "some interior luxuries such as electric seat adjustment and wood grain would be nice" bear testament to this. Yeah, my Jeep has some minor issues, but I've also thrashed it off-road and hit dips and bumps at speeds that would have destroyed many other so-called 4WD's, and the big 'ole Dana 44's just beg for more. As far as I'm concerned. soccer moms and office workers who bought Wranglers as a daily driver based purely on their looks without taking any of these other factors into account deserve what they get!