I made the little yellow engine mad at me
11-08-2008 | 12:16 PM
#21
JK Jedi
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,213
Likes: 7
From: Georgia
Yeah there sure is, and it's YOUR post. I suggest that you read up on the subject before YOU spew some BS. ABS is for BOTH stopping distance AND control.
EDIT. Read these. You will see that ABS on DRY, clean pavement DOES lower stopping distances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
http://www.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/gener.../aa052001a.htm
There are some "limited" situations where it can increase stopping distance, such as loose gravel, snow, ice and wet pavement. All of these conditions require physical adjustments on the driver's part anyway. In other words, don't be a dumbass. Electroincs is not your enemy, people. Braking is LEAST EFFECTIVE during a skid. In layman's terms, if the tire is NOT gripping the road, it CANNOT slow the vehicle well. Why the hell do yall think insurance companies give big discounts for vehicles with ABS? Because independant studies show those vehicles are in fewer accidents, that's why. This is all I have to add. If yall want to hack up your Jeep's electronics, go right ahead. I'm sure those of you that do are way smarter than any of those ivory league engineers at Chrysler.
Last edited by RedneckJeep; 11-08-2008 at 12:33 PM.
11-08-2008 | 01:58 PM
#22
JK Super Freak
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 3
From: Winnipeg
A whole lot of BS being spewed in this thread as fact. ABS vehicles take longer to stop than non-ABS vehicles. ABS is implemented for control not stopping distance. 2003-2006 Jeep Rubicons did NOT come with ABS and it was NEVER and option. ABS is detrimental off road. It's only meager benefit is on the pavement. And the benefit is debatable not fact.
I live in Winnipeg and we drive in some of the worst winter conditions imaginable. ABS and ESP saved my ass more than once.
11-08-2008 | 08:41 PM
#23
JK Freak
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 974
Likes: 0
From: Canisteo, NY
Too bad you don't actually know that threshold for every surface. Also, you can't cycle as fast as the computer. Yes, they don't use ABS on race cars, but for two reasons. One, to keep it lighter, and two, because they don't actually slam on the brakes to full lockup to begin with. You see what happens when they do try to stop to avoid a wreck, they skid out of control. And these people are professional drivers. Every study performed comparing ABS and nonABS identical cars showed that ABS cars consistently outperformed in all scenarios on roads. The only place it may aid you is downhill descent in loose dirt/sand, because locking up can make a little mound of debris. Convincing yourself that you can modulate brake pressure 30 times per second is pure hubris.
ESP also works great on the stock vehicle. If you change the mechanics, because Jeep won't allow the computer to be modified past a certain amount, it doesn't work.
ESP also works great on the stock vehicle. If you change the mechanics, because Jeep won't allow the computer to be modified past a certain amount, it doesn't work.
The JK was designed and equipped with all of it's electronics for a reason. The ABS is actually the heart of the system. It works in conjunction with the ESP to help keep the Jeep stable in certain situations. It also works to cause the BLD to operate and keep one wheel from turning to help direct power to another wheel that might have better traction. Rewiring lockers to work when you want is one thing. But when you change a designed saftey feature that was researched and developed into the vehicle, you're asking for trouble. Maybe "unsafe" was a bad term to use. How about "less safe"? Will that pass your scrutiny? If not, then think about the fact that the JK is a top heavy vehicle. It does have some of the same characteristics as a lot of SUVs on the road. The ABS and ESP work together to help avoid situations where the Jeep might have a tendency to roll. So to me, disabling any part of that DOES make it less safe. Not just for the Jeep owner, but also for those you may share the road with. Besides that, why would you want ABS disabled when your BLD will no longer function? That's just nuts.
How is the JK a top heavy vehicle? You have cloth or fiberglass up top.
11-09-2008 | 08:25 PM
#24
JK Super Freak
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,769
Likes: 0
From: Coastal Bend
You don't need to cycle the brakes 30 times a second you just need to come to the point just before locking the tires up for the most stopping traction. And you don't need to know about every surface. And decent driver should be able to tell through the brake and steering wheel as to whats going on!!! ABS does not outperform NON ABS all the time on the road. ONLY on dry pavement.
Not disagreeing with what your saying, but people have driven for years and years with out ESP ABS and BLD. Now being that most vehicles have them and people get used to driving with them and saving their ass time after time if they take them out then yes I would say thats unsafe. But if someone is a good driver and actually pays attention to what is going on, on the road then I don't think it's unsafe.
I haven't seen any drivers that pay attention for a long time either. I'm sure in the hands of a perfect drive it wouldn't be unsafe, just less safe. Why wouldn't you want to be as safe as possible?
11-10-2008 | 08:42 AM
#25
JK Freak
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 974
Likes: 0
From: Canisteo, NY
I drive on every surface imaginable, why shouldn't I need to know about them all? Like I said, ABS does your first statement automatically, without your input. You still haven't answered why insurance companies give people discounts for having cars with them. ABS outperforms, period.
People drove for years without carseats, seatbelts, and airbags too. The logic is not what I would call infallible.
I haven't seen any drivers that pay attention for a long time either. I'm sure in the hands of a perfect drive it wouldn't be unsafe, just less safe. Why wouldn't you want to be as safe as possible?
I haven't seen any drivers that pay attention for a long time either. I'm sure in the hands of a perfect drive it wouldn't be unsafe, just less safe. Why wouldn't you want to be as safe as possible?
By the way after 2 combat tours I have accepted the fact that you can't always be as safe as possible. When it's your time to go, you will go.
Last edited by Choppus; 11-10-2008 at 08:51 AM.
11-10-2008 | 01:52 PM
#26
JK Super Freak
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,769
Likes: 0
From: Coastal Bend
I don't mind safety until, it starts to infringe upon my freedom. Getting a seatbelt ticket in America, (land of the free) is ridiculous. We're not free in the least. I think everyone should have a choice of wearing a seatbelt or a helmet, and maybe a switch to turn the airbag off. Just my
11-10-2008 | 02:52 PM
#27
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
The safety-oriented electronics in our vehicles can't be all things to all people. ABS can be detrimental off road, as was noted above (imagine clinging to some rocks on a severe decent when your Jeep decides to ease off the brakes because you're sliding a bit... ouch).
ABS, traction control, etc., are generally more helpful than not, but they are also geared toward compensating for lack of skill, and in some cases intelligence, thanks to our wonderful legal system and government regulations. That's why airbags are programmed to explode with a charge that is more than what's needed for a person who is wearing a seat belt... gotta save the dummy who's not wearing his belt, even if it means occassionally killing a properly belted innocent person (child) who may not have been injured otherwise.
Lots of good points being made here... just don't assume that because something is there that it's good for you.
ABS, traction control, etc., are generally more helpful than not, but they are also geared toward compensating for lack of skill, and in some cases intelligence, thanks to our wonderful legal system and government regulations. That's why airbags are programmed to explode with a charge that is more than what's needed for a person who is wearing a seat belt... gotta save the dummy who's not wearing his belt, even if it means occassionally killing a properly belted innocent person (child) who may not have been injured otherwise.
Lots of good points being made here... just don't assume that because something is there that it's good for you.
Last edited by Roxster; 11-10-2008 at 05:48 PM.
//www.gunco.net/gallery/data/506/arguing.jpg
11-11-2008 | 03:13 AM
#29
JK Freak
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 974
Likes: 0
From: Canisteo, NY
I don't have any problem with that, as long as there are no other passengers in the car, and you have a signed DNR form that prevents taxpayers from having to pay for your mistake. Also, if you have family, you must have saved up enough to provide for them. Then sure, do whatever you want.
The safety-oriented electronics in our vehicles can't be all things to all people. ABS can be detrimental off road, as was noted above (imagine clinging to some rocks on a severe decent when your Jeep decides to ease off the brakes because you're sliding a bit... ouch).
ABS, traction control, etc., are generally more helpful than not, but they are also geared toward compensating for lack of skill, and in some cases intelligence, thanks to our wonderful legal system and government regulations. That's why airbags are programmed to explode with a charge that is more than what's needed for a person who is wearing a seat belt... gotta save the dummy who's not wearing his belt, even if it means occassionally killing a properly belted innocent person (child) who may not have been injured otherwise.
Lots of good points being made here... just don't assume that because something is there that it's good for you.
ABS, traction control, etc., are generally more helpful than not, but they are also geared toward compensating for lack of skill, and in some cases intelligence, thanks to our wonderful legal system and government regulations. That's why airbags are programmed to explode with a charge that is more than what's needed for a person who is wearing a seat belt... gotta save the dummy who's not wearing his belt, even if it means occassionally killing a properly belted innocent person (child) who may not have been injured otherwise.
Lots of good points being made here... just don't assume that because something is there that it's good for you.
