IIQII

OK, I got the timing set on my '12 replaced. All worked out well and it starts right up.

Runs pretty smooth, but then started throwing misfire codes on on bank again. It will not go above about 4k RPM.

Hooked my XTool D8W to it and started watching the live data. Oil pressure good, coolant temp good. One cam is reporting alignment issues. This being the case I started watching the actual vs desired position on the cams. 3 were dead on, while the other was all over the place. No consistent measurements, both positive and negative. I mean really out of whack. If the desired was 127, the actual would report -260, 90, 0, -120 etc.

The cam and crank sensors are new and I did a relearn on them. Makes me wonder if it is indeed a sensor or maybe the reluctor wheel on the cam. The other cam on the same sensor is dead on. Anyone ever see one side of a sensor fail. The reluctor (and cams) were not subject to any magnetic fields or steel, they were never removed.

Of course these misfires trigger other codes...

Overall not bad, it would not run before but does now. Instead of everything throwing codes (because of broken guide on timing set) now only one set of codes on the same cam. On to trying to nail this one down

resharp001

what is the actual code it's throwing? is it lighting up immediately on start up? I've been pretty far down this path and the one thing that seemed specific to the cam's reluctor wheel having walked was that the codes would light up on start up vs. most other situations where it would take some driving to trigger the code (more related to phaser/oil pressure/oil/etc). If that sensor is a new mopar one I find it hard to believe that is it. More often than not it seems like it is NOT the sensor but people sure like changing em out, and considering it's the easiest thing to do to start that is understandable. I've been there before. It's too bad the the little tools that Mopar came out with to check if a reluctor wheel walked are so damn expensive, and also a little hard to come by. At the point of buying the tool you're almost just buying a new camshaft. Easier to justify if you're an actual mechanic that can get some use out of the tool. I think when I was looking at those they were ~$250. MIght be different now.

IIQII

Hey Russ,

Good morning. Thanks for the reply and thanks for mentioning the XTool. It is really a pretty nice device.

The active codes are a P0017 & P000C. There are a P0300 and a P0305 saved.

I cleared the codes this morning and did a relearn after everything was up to operating temp. The 2 active codes took a few to show up. No driving, this was all at idle or bringing the RPM up with the throttle. Driving will probably throw the misfires again.

It runs and idles pretty smooth, but will still not go above about 3500 RPM. Even bringing the RPM up to that there is not hesitation, sound or stumbles.

Here is the data off the live data. Notice the Intake 2 desired vs actual. Everything else is pretty steady



Crank difference shows a massive separation on that cam as well




I am going to switch the sensors to the other sides and see if it the data follows the sensor(s).

resharp001

Just one big gigantic sigh. What a kick to the nuts. I'm wondering if this is what a failed phaser actually looks like. The problem heading down these camshaft codes is they can be so many things, and so many people fire the parts cannon multiple times at once that you never really know what the actual solution was. For example, see so many people replacing phasers and seeing so much about those being a wear item, but I've disassembled one of those suckers. There's so little to them...essentially 1 pin in there that moves with oil pressure. I don't see how those could fail very often at all, or how they are wear items that need to be replaced even semi-regularly. I think that P0017 code though seems more rare than the typical P0369 and related codes for the other cams.

Since the code isn't lighting up immediately, i don't think it's the reluctor wheel. If it was that would flag immediately as things started turning. This seems more like this is running ok, even as you take the RPMs up, then you get to a point the engine needs to adjust and boom, issue is flagged. The only things handling camshaft advancing or retarding is that phaser, the oil control valve, and the actuator in front of the VC. I'm just thinking out loud here and trying to work through things logically.

I'd have a hard time seeing it be the sensor but I'm sure curious to see if swapping em makes a difference. You might swap the actuators as well from driver's side over to the passenger side. I've never understood how those are the exact same part numbers for both intake and exhaust, but I always see commentary to not mix those, even in the service manual, so when I've swapped I take the corresponding side on the other bank to swap with.

Curious, did you scope the cylinders at all while you had things apart and were doing the timing? It is a little concerning that the '12s seemed to have head issues in general. The multiple misfiring is a little concerning. Seems that all through my cam issues I never had any misfires.....though the differences in cam actual/desired correlations seems pretty extreme.

Sorry I'm not a ton of help cept talking through things. I've really had to figure out this 3.6L just kinda jumping into it and getting my hands dirty over the years. There are certainly others, yourself included, that likely know way more about general engine internals than me. I'm kinda self taught over the years. Fortunate to not be scared to just research and jump into things I've never dealt with before.

JimWPB

...Or a wire, or a connector, or routing of a wire too close to an ignition coil, or other heavy electrical interference...

Check the cheap stuff first.

Your idea of swapping positions of different components to see what the issue follows is a tried & true method for many different components.

Also, either at night, or in a garage with the lights out, start her up & look under the hood in the dark. Do you see any ignition sparks in places they should not be? Do you hear anything funny?

resharp001

Y, since you had the intake and VCs off, it is good to double check that electrical harness to the sensor. 3 of those pins should have 5v and the 4th is the ground. Those wires don't provide much extra so they are easily stretched. maybe the one wired specific to that side of the sensor is not making good contact or spliced somewhere.

IIQII

Well it is pretty funny. The swap of a sensor did not fix anything. Since the light is steady and not blinking I decided to take it out and collect some live data. Went for a 15-20 mile drive. The check engine stayed on but the code status went to a stored and not active. Now the strange part is the RPM limit disappeared. Parked it for about 20 minutes started it up and no issues. The traction control light was off as well. Took it for a very short ~1 mile drive and no issues. Parked it for a couple hours and the CEL is back on along with the traction control. The RPM is back to hitting the 3500 wall. The ABS is also getting a torque denied. I originally thought it was the tone wheel, but a phaser seem more likely. The only thing with that is I don't think/know if a phaser would cause those really erratic swings in the sensor. I could see 20 degrees but this is a complete swap.

The wiring all looks good, nothing broken or exposed. It is the original harness and there are no modifications. I know that since I have owned it since new.

In changing the timing set I also got the galley bolts and loctite'd them with some 243 and torqued them. 1 was very loose when I checked them, so they all got done.

The interesting thing is it is only 1 cam that is exhibiting any issues. The live data I got shows the issue as still there but not with the frequency from when I first posted. When the RPM is limited, there are no odd sounds, the engine is smooth and has pretty good pickup till that wall is hit. When the code change and the limit disappeared it drove like it always did.

Ehhhh either way, the work is interesting and I am glad to have my Jeep. I will keep at it till hopefully I find something. Changing the phaser is not a big deal, so maybe that will be next

IceColeNH

I am following this as I have the P0017. I did switch sensors and subsequently traded sides. To no avail. My issue is very similar to yours. Power, no power, codes to no check engine light. Had full power to restricted and back again. I haven't had a chance to pull anything apart yet as the Jeep is in for some body work. I will definitely try switching the actuators around. I was thinking one could've failed. I don't a way to test them.

Anyway hopefully you have success and aren't mad that i jumped in here.

IIQII

Not at all, hopefully along the way one of us may find something to help the other out.

I am sitting here now contemplating ordering a phaser and just swap it. The other thing I am wondering is he particle accumulation on the tone wheel. I wonder if that could be throwing things off. I know it is probably grasping at straws but I tend to think things over too much a lot of times...

IceColeNH

I tried cleaning off the tone wheels and did get a bit of stuff off. Tough to tell, May have been metal. Didn't change anything. I had also changed oil as suggested. When I get it back, time permitting, I'll see what I can do. I may just go for a swap. I do have high mileage.

I wonder if a clogged cat could be a cause. Low power being caused by excess back pressure and keeping the variable valve timing from adjusting.