Any other "07"s need piston rings
01-11-2011, 05:00 AM
#131
JK Enthusiast
Question regarding your '07
Since you have an '07 have you replaced your timing cover as per the TSB? That certainly can be (one) of the sources of your oil loss. The cover is the entire front of the engine.
NUMBER: 09-008-07
GROUP: Engine
DATE: November 07, 2007
SUBJECT:
3.8L Engine Oil Seepage Due To Front Timing Cover Surface Porosity
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the 3.8L engine timing cover.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience oil seepage from the engine. The oil seepage may be due to surface porosity in the aluminum material used to make the engine timing cover. This surface porosity is located on the surface that mates to the engine block.
The source of the oil seepage may be misdiagnosed. The following are areas where the engine oil seepage may be noticed due to the timing cover porosity:
a). Timing Cover - The seepage may appear as a gasket leak between the cover and the engine block.
b). Oil Filter- The timing cover porosity may lead to an oil seepage at the oil filter or immediate area of the oil filter. The technician may believe that the oil filter is at fault.
c). Unused Oil Filter Adapter Boss - Oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display at the face of the unused oil filter adapter boss. The adapter boss is on the lower left side of the engine.
d). Oil Pan - The technician may believe that the oil pan gasket is at fault.
e). Rear Seal Carrier - The oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display in the area of the rear crankshaft seal carrier. The technician may believe that the rear crankshaft seal is at fault.
f). Front Crankshaft Seal - The porosity in the timing cover above or around the front crankshaft seal may cause the technician to believe that the front crankshaft seal is at fault.
GROUP: Engine
DATE: November 07, 2007
SUBJECT:
3.8L Engine Oil Seepage Due To Front Timing Cover Surface Porosity
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the 3.8L engine timing cover.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience oil seepage from the engine. The oil seepage may be due to surface porosity in the aluminum material used to make the engine timing cover. This surface porosity is located on the surface that mates to the engine block.
The source of the oil seepage may be misdiagnosed. The following are areas where the engine oil seepage may be noticed due to the timing cover porosity:
a). Timing Cover - The seepage may appear as a gasket leak between the cover and the engine block.
b). Oil Filter- The timing cover porosity may lead to an oil seepage at the oil filter or immediate area of the oil filter. The technician may believe that the oil filter is at fault.
c). Unused Oil Filter Adapter Boss - Oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display at the face of the unused oil filter adapter boss. The adapter boss is on the lower left side of the engine.
d). Oil Pan - The technician may believe that the oil pan gasket is at fault.
e). Rear Seal Carrier - The oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display in the area of the rear crankshaft seal carrier. The technician may believe that the rear crankshaft seal is at fault.
f). Front Crankshaft Seal - The porosity in the timing cover above or around the front crankshaft seal may cause the technician to believe that the front crankshaft seal is at fault.
Last edited by TheDoubleD; 01-11-2011 at 05:05 AM.
01-11-2011, 10:03 AM
#132
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mansfield /OH
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is directed at me no that has not been done to mine. If you look at the pics on page 6 ( I think) they don't do justice to how encrusted the pistons they were with burnt oil... now that the rings where replaced and I'm still losing a quart & a half in 500 miles I think it might be more than a porous cover.... it is not leaking I have a concrete driveway with no oil spots on it
01-11-2011, 03:11 PM
#133
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Port Deposit, Md
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Reiper
If this is directed at me no that has not been done to mine. If you look at the pics on page 6 ( I think) they don't do justice to how encrusted the pistons they were with burnt oil... now that the rings where replaced and I'm still losing a quart & a half in 500 miles I think it might be more than a porous cover.... it is not leaking I have a concrete driveway with no oil spots on it
Let me get this right. You just had your jeep in to rebuild the incorrectly installed piston rings and now it's burning even MORE oil than before the rebuild?
01-11-2011, 04:13 PM
#134
JK Super Freak
I wonder did they just replace the rings without re-honing the block, as the damaged cylinder walls wouldn't take long to wreck the new rings.
01-11-2011, 04:38 PM
#135
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Port Deposit, Md
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would a compression test help determine if you may have the rings incorrectly installed? I'm thinking bout trying that first to see what the extent is. I did pull the spark plugs and they were a little dirty but not bad at all. I'm out of warranty as I bought used and just wondering how I could possibly troubleshoot the issue before putting into the shop. I'm not leaking any oil from my timing cover or and gaskets or seals. Everything is bone dry as far as the outside of the motor is concerned.
01-11-2011, 05:35 PM
#136
JK Enthusiast
If this is directed at me no that has not been done to mine. If you look at the pics on page 6 ( I think) they don't do justice to how encrusted the pistons they were with burnt oil... now that the rings where replaced and I'm still losing a quart & a half in 500 miles I think it might be more than a porous cover.... it is not leaking I have a concrete driveway with no oil spots on it
01-11-2011, 06:18 PM
#137
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N.E. Georgia
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I'm not sure if my timing cover has been changed either, but I can tell you I have never seen a drop of oil under it or on the engine either. It confuses the H*LL out of me...no smoke, no leaks...but there's 5 quarts that goes missing in 1200 miles...it's got SOME kind of a problem. I'm leaning towards the improperly installed ring theory, where the gaps are all lined up, and the bottom oil control ring is upside down, and then that causes blow by, and mists up the oil, and lets more of it be sucked up by the pcv valve, that is, what of it isn't burning in the cylinders and going out originally as smoke, but being done away with (the smoke) by the convertor/emission system...which if so, will be stopped up sooner or later.
01-11-2011, 06:44 PM
#138
JK Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 07 with 35k on it is burning oil as well. Bought it used with 19k and luckily have an extended powertrain warrenty on it. Thanks to the forum i started checking my oil and realized that i get to be one of the lucky ones stuck with another poor Chrysler product. After a road trip to PA putting on about 800 miles i lost 1 1/2 qts.
Last week started the consumption test. Dealer changed oil and added a dye. Bring back in 1,000 miles. Oil dipstick does read over the hump.
Hopefully they will not drag this out because i am close to making the dreaded decision of trading it in and staying away from Chysler.
Last week started the consumption test. Dealer changed oil and added a dye. Bring back in 1,000 miles. Oil dipstick does read over the hump.
Hopefully they will not drag this out because i am close to making the dreaded decision of trading it in and staying away from Chysler.
01-11-2011, 07:38 PM
#139
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N.E. Georgia
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really love my jeep, don't really want to trade or sell it, but I'd like to get the engine fixed, rebuilt, replaced or SOMETHING. I'd love to hemi it, but...$$$
01-11-2011, 09:25 PM
#140
JK Super Freak
Although some motors have had the rings incorrectly installed on the pistons resulting in huge amounts of oil consumption, it seems many JKs do burn some oil. We are told by Chrysler that this is normal.
The common consensus on my local forum where this discussion is currently running seems to be that it's the thin oil Chrysler specifies mainly to increase mileage for their CAFE figures that is the problem. Of course many people have said that modern, high performance, tight-tolerance motors need the new, thinner oils to lubricate themselves properly and the myth that the Chrysler 3.8L V6 is one of these modern, tight-tolerance motors seems to have propagated here. The new Pentastar quad cam, VVT, high performance V6 may certainly be in this category however the JK's old fashioned, iron block, low-revving, single camshaft pushrod motor 20 years or more old in design certainly is not. One of the guys is an experienced mechanic who has examined the specs for the JKs V6 motor and is of the opinion that the tolerances are decidedly old-school & not particularly tight at all.
In reality 5w20 is a low viscosity winter-weight oil that is well suited to the North American and European winter climate however under harsh operating conditions 20 weight oil will burn off in a motor such as the low-tech 3.8L V6, particularly at prolonged highway speeds. Many people where I am have found that their oil consumption stops completely when they switch to 15w40 grade oil, which is far better suited to hot climates (5w20 isn't even available off-the-shelf where I am as it's considered too thin an application for hot climates, 5w30 being the thinnest oil available without special order).
The common consensus on my local forum where this discussion is currently running seems to be that it's the thin oil Chrysler specifies mainly to increase mileage for their CAFE figures that is the problem. Of course many people have said that modern, high performance, tight-tolerance motors need the new, thinner oils to lubricate themselves properly and the myth that the Chrysler 3.8L V6 is one of these modern, tight-tolerance motors seems to have propagated here. The new Pentastar quad cam, VVT, high performance V6 may certainly be in this category however the JK's old fashioned, iron block, low-revving, single camshaft pushrod motor 20 years or more old in design certainly is not. One of the guys is an experienced mechanic who has examined the specs for the JKs V6 motor and is of the opinion that the tolerances are decidedly old-school & not particularly tight at all.
In reality 5w20 is a low viscosity winter-weight oil that is well suited to the North American and European winter climate however under harsh operating conditions 20 weight oil will burn off in a motor such as the low-tech 3.8L V6, particularly at prolonged highway speeds. Many people where I am have found that their oil consumption stops completely when they switch to 15w40 grade oil, which is far better suited to hot climates (5w20 isn't even available off-the-shelf where I am as it's considered too thin an application for hot climates, 5w30 being the thinnest oil available without special order).