Amsoil hype? Lets find out!
03-24-2011, 06:52 PM
#31
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Changing the oil with Amsoil after 6,000 miles would be a complete waste of money. With retail prices, you are looking at atleast $75 for a oil and filter change. This is where the benefit of extended drain intervals comes into play. Amsoil is formulated using additives to last longer, therefore, stay with Mobil 1 or even Dino oil if you want to change every 3-5000 miles.
One more point, everyone tells me my engine will loose warranty if I go over 6,000 miles. Im not sure why, or maybe its a misprint or I am reading it wrong, but my owners manual says the oil change and filter interval is every 8,000 miles.
One more point thats worth noting is that Amsoil guarantees that with proper Oil Analysis, and by following Amsoil's guidelines, that my Jeep will be guaranteed to stay under Chrysler warranty. If it doesnt, then Amsoil will fix anything that goes wrong. I would not be doing this if I thought I would void my warranty. They would have to prove that I didn't change my oil at regular intervals. There would be NO WAY to do this, becuase they would take an engine oil analysis, and my oil would show it was good.
On a new point, Please stay tuned for the first engine oil analysis so you can see what I mean. I have a lot of good stuff planned.
One more point, everyone tells me my engine will loose warranty if I go over 6,000 miles. Im not sure why, or maybe its a misprint or I am reading it wrong, but my owners manual says the oil change and filter interval is every 8,000 miles.
One more point thats worth noting is that Amsoil guarantees that with proper Oil Analysis, and by following Amsoil's guidelines, that my Jeep will be guaranteed to stay under Chrysler warranty. If it doesnt, then Amsoil will fix anything that goes wrong. I would not be doing this if I thought I would void my warranty. They would have to prove that I didn't change my oil at regular intervals. There would be NO WAY to do this, becuase they would take an engine oil analysis, and my oil would show it was good.
On a new point, Please stay tuned for the first engine oil analysis so you can see what I mean. I have a lot of good stuff planned.
I'm stayng tuned all right. Most people don't want to risk a several thousand dollar new motor warranty, this is good stuff.
Oops I forgot something. Here is a quote from AMSOIL:
If your engine failed, and the manufacturer denied your warranty for repair due to your using extended drain intervals, then you would submit your claim to the AMSOIL Technical Services Department for handling. (See the AMSOIL Limited Warranty.) Our staff will analyze the oil, and if we are able to provide documentation that proves the source of the problem was something other than the oil, and that in turn allows your claim to be processed under the original warranty, then we will. If no proof can be assembled regarding the source of the problem, our insurance adjustor will be dispatched to resolve the claim. A warranty claim being denied because of the use of extended drain intervals is an extremely rare occurrence. That's because motor oils do not cause engine failures; dirt, glycol and other mechanical problems do."
If your engine failed, and the manufacturer denied your warranty for repair due to your using extended drain intervals, then you would submit your claim to the AMSOIL Technical Services Department for handling. (See the AMSOIL Limited Warranty.) Our staff will analyze the oil, and if we are able to provide documentation that proves the source of the problem was something other than the oil, and that in turn allows your claim to be processed under the original warranty, then we will. If no proof can be assembled regarding the source of the problem, our insurance adjustor will be dispatched to resolve the claim. A warranty claim being denied because of the use of extended drain intervals is an extremely rare occurrence. That's because motor oils do not cause engine failures; dirt, glycol and other mechanical problems do."
I basically don't buy used vehicles; but, if I did I would want documentation of religious 3,000 mile oil changes. Although this is very interesting, you might consider the effect this experiment could have on the future value of you Jeep should you decide to sell it.
03-24-2011, 11:22 PM
#33
JK Freak
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not good at this whole "Quote" thing so bear with me.
The additives in oil do a number of things. One additives is what causes the multi viscosity. You are right, this is the first thing to let go. This is why we need to change the oil on a regular basis. Full Synthetic oil (FULL SYNTHETIC, NOT MOBIL 1) has less of these additives. This means it can last longer without loosing viscosity. Used Oil Analysis can test for viscosity and remaining viscosity additives. In Amsoil, and other Full Synthetics, the viscosity stays in place during multiple life cycles of class III (mobil 1) or other non-synthetic oils. In a nutshell, full synthetics last longer, and this can been proven by oil analysis.
The additives in oil do a number of things. One additives is what causes the multi viscosity. You are right, this is the first thing to let go. This is why we need to change the oil on a regular basis. Full Synthetic oil (FULL SYNTHETIC, NOT MOBIL 1) has less of these additives. This means it can last longer without loosing viscosity. Used Oil Analysis can test for viscosity and remaining viscosity additives. In Amsoil, and other Full Synthetics, the viscosity stays in place during multiple life cycles of class III (mobil 1) or other non-synthetic oils. In a nutshell, full synthetics last longer, and this can been proven by oil analysis.
The viscosity modifiers are important. You want the oil to be able to flow more easily than usual when it is very cold. An oil is not naturally multi-viscosity. It has one viscosity. The modifiers are what allow the 5w-20 part and not straight 20. Whether class 4 needs more or less initially is besides the point, it is how long can the additives last. Are you saying that the viscosity modifiers in the Amsoil last 25k? Honest question.
Changing the oil with Amsoil after 6,000 miles would be a complete waste of money. With retail prices, you are looking at atleast $75 for a oil and filter change. This is where the benefit of extended drain intervals comes into play. Amsoil is formulated using additives to last longer, therefore, stay with Mobil 1 or even Dino oil if you want to change every 3-5000 miles.
They test more than particulate count in the oil. Different particulates and chemicals tell a tale of the state the oil is in. This includes engine wear, cold AND hot viscosity, fuel and water dilution, foaming characteristics, and other chemicals like Moly, viscosity additives, and integrity of the ORIGINAL OILS ADDITIVES.
FOR INSTANCE: They can tell me that my 0w20 Amsoil is alot different than a brand new bottle, and that would be bad. At 8,000 miles, they can tell me my engine is having bearing wear, seal deterioration, Fuel Blowby, coolant leak, etc..etc..etc...
FOR INSTANCE: They can tell me that my 0w20 Amsoil is alot different than a brand new bottle, and that would be bad. At 8,000 miles, they can tell me my engine is having bearing wear, seal deterioration, Fuel Blowby, coolant leak, etc..etc..etc...
For people or companies running a fleet of vehicles, very expensive engines repaired at their cost, or expensive to change oil the UOA makes more sense.
One more point, everyone tells me my engine will loose warranty if I go over 6,000 miles. Im not sure why, or maybe its a misprint or I am reading it wrong, but my owners manual says the oil change and filter interval is every 8,000 miles.
One more point thats worth noting is that Amsoil guarantees that with proper Oil Analysis, and by following Amsoil's guidelines, that my Jeep will be guaranteed to stay under Chrysler warranty. If it doesnt, then Amsoil will fix anything that goes wrong. I would not be doing this if I thought I would void my warranty. They would have to prove that I didn't change my oil at regular intervals. There would be NO WAY to do this, becuase they would take an engine oil analysis, and my oil would show it was good.
On a new point, Please stay tuned for the first engine oil analysis so you can see what I mean. I have a lot of good stuff planned.
For a brand new and under warranty vehicle though I can't see it being much more than a pain in the ass if something goes wrong. The 100k mark should be pretty easily reached by anyone running the crappiest dyno oil, so the guarantee is not the best of the best anyways.
The real benefit of Amsoil (or Mobil-1, Castrol, etc even if to a lesser degree) is the ability to reach well beyond that 100k. For an average use personal vehicle, that is less of a concern. Surely I would prefer my engine to last 500,000 miles - but by then the rest of the vehicle will be completely outdated, worn out, dented, etc. It would be like driving a 1985 vehicle now. Engine okay or not, the car is going to be worthless. For a semi, train, taxi, or any other engine that runs all of the time - that is much more important as those miles come soon.
I am not trying to get your thread derailed, I just think that even if Amsoil lives up to every single one of its claims it is likely to be hype anyways. You aren't going to be driving this vehicle in 20 years. We are on another tech shift now, and electric is going to be the norm sooner than people think. My guess is less than ten years to near total market. So for a personal use vehicle, the benefits of Amsoil need to come down to cheaper (no), more convenience (is it more convenient to get an oil sample for $30 instead of changing the oil for $30 every 6k? I say no), or better mpg, noise, etc (I don't know - but hoping you keep us updated).
03-24-2011, 11:34 PM
#34
JK Freak
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mobil 1 is a great oil. If you are doing regular oil change intervals, Mobil 1 is fine. What I like about Mobil is it's the easiest synthetic (class III) oil to find, and it's cheap compared to class IV oil like Amsoil, Redline, or Royal Purple. Your not getting ALL the benefits of a class IV oil, but most of those benefits are for extended drain intervals anyway.
03-25-2011, 02:52 AM
#35
JK Super Freak
Not to hyjack the thread, as I believe it is somewhat of interest, but just to add to all the posters that stated Mobile 1 and Amsoil are group III oils, here is a listing of commen synthetic oils, and some info about oils in general including brands:
COMMON 5W-20 SYNTHETIC OILS*
Product Name Base Viscosity Index Pour Point °C (°F) Volatility % Weight Loss Four Ball Wear TBN Service Life Suggested Cost (Qt) Cost/ 10 Miles
Para. 1 Para. 3
Amsoil XL (XLF) Group III/ Hydrocracked 196 -51 (-60) 8.8% 0.35 0.38 10.1 7500 Miles/ 6 Months $5.20 4.0 cents
Amsoil (ASL) Group IV/ PAO 182 -51 (-60) 6.9% 0.35 0.40 >11.0 25,000 Miles/ 1 Year $5.85 2.6 cents
Mobil 1 Group IV/ PAO 168 -48 (-54) 9.2% 0.35 0.60 8.5 Mfg. Rec. $4.78 3.7 cents
Pennzoil Synthetic Group II/ Hydrocracked 161 -48 (-54) 5.7% 0.40 0.60 10.0 Mfg. Rec. $4.49 3.6 cents
Valvoline SynPower Group III/ Hydrocracked 164 -44 (-47) 13.1% 0.35 0.55 8.9 Mfg. Rec. $4.48 3.6 cents
Castrol Syntec Group III/ Hydrocracked 147 -39 (-38) 10.0% 0.40 0.61 10.0 Mfg. Rec. $4.47 3.6 cents
Quaker State Full Synthetic Group III/ Hydrocracked 183 -46 (-51) 10.2% 0.35 0.55 7.7 Mfg. Rec. $3.97 3.2 cents
COMMON 10W-30 SYNTHETIC OILS*
Product Name Base Viscosity Index Volatility % Weight Loss Four Ball Wear TBN Service Life Suggested Cost (Qt) Cost/ 10 Miles
Amsoil XL (XLT) Group III/ Hydrocracked 163 4.7% .038 10.2 7500 Miles/ 6 Months $5.20 4.0 cents
Amsoil (ASL) Group IV/ PAO 167 6.6% 0.35 >12.2 25,000 Miles/ 1 Year $5.85 2.6 cents
Mobil 1 Group IV/ PAO 147 11.1% 0.35 8.5 5000 Miles $4.78 5.4 cents
Castrol Group II/ Hydrocracked 159 5.47% 6.81 5000 Miles $4.48 5.1 cents
Shell Group III/ Hydrocracked 140 5000 Miles $4.97 5.6 cents
Pennzoil Group III/ Hydrocracked 150 9.5% 0.65 7.18 5000 Miles $4.49 5.1 cents
Valvoline Group III/ Hydrocracked 140 8.3% 0.40 6.85 5000 Miles $4.48 5.1 cents
Havoline Group III/ Hydrocracked 148 5000 Miles $3.48 4.1 cents
Quaker State Group III/ Hydrocracked 148 12.27% 5000 Miles $3.97 4.6 cents
Not all synthetic oils are equal. Some give better protection and last longer than others, depending on whether they're formulated with Ester or PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) stock. Synthetic oils made from the ester class are much more expensive, but are more durable and hold up under hotter temperatures.
Synthetic oils have different base stocks, which comprise some 90% of the oil. The base stock is the actual lubricant The other 10% or so is the additive package. The relative ability of oils to lubricate is determined by the components of the base stock. There are two principal classes of base stocks used in real synthetic oils: synthesized hydrocarbons (PAOs) and organic esters.
PAOs
The base stock materials used today many popular synthetic oils are made of carbon and hydrogen molecules. These
are synthesized from ethylene gas molecules into PolyAlphaOleflns (PAO). Almost all the synthetic oils sold in the stores are made with PAO base stocks. PAOs provide better viscosity characteristics, are more resistant to oxidation and have much better low operating properties than petroleum oils. PAOs are cheaper synthetic oil base stocks, and aren't as durable as the ester class of synthetic oils. Some of the popular brands of PAO oils include Amsoil and Mobil-1.
These are known as a Group IV oil.
ESTERS (Polyolesters)
Organic esters are made by reacting certain acids with alcohols, forming acid esters. There are alcohol diesters and
Polyol esters. This process uses expensive materials and results in lubricants that cost many times more than PAOs.
Only esters are durable enough to withstand the rigors of jet engine operation and they are used in racing and high performance cars. These oils can cost $8 dollars or more a quart. Redline is an example of an ester synthetic oil.
These are known as a Group V oil.
Hydrocracked (sometimes called Hydrowax)
These are petroleum oils that have been hydroisomerized, as it is commonly called. The most stringent level of petroleum oil refining. Much of the paraffin and impurities have been removed and its performance on any number of industry tests is substantially better than it's group two cousins (the regular oil petroleum oil used in automobiles).
Although it is not made from a synthesized, engineered molecule and as such is not a true synthetic oil, it does offer a portion of the benefits you would expect from a true synthetic and in fact is usually sold and marketed as a 100% synthetic product. Hydrowaxes are very cheap to produce, even cheaper than olefins, making them the cheapest of all the synthetics. As they are formulated from crude oil base stocks they aren't a true synthetic. These are known as a Group III oil. Castrol Syntec is known for using this method.
Quality
Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.
This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap.
Differences in same Brands.
Even the same brand of synthetic oil can have different qualities. Mobil 1 has several different qualities available in the same weights. You can buy 5W/20, 5W/30, 10W/30, 15W/50 Mobil 1 in the "Extended Performance" line as well as in the "normal" line of synthetics for less than a $1 more a quart.
So what is the difference? Here's what the Mobil 1 website has to say about that:
"Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with a boosted level of protection and performance. Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn* System, contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1"
This might indicate that the extended performance synthetic oil has about 50% more synthetic base stock than their regular "fully" synthetic oil. This would probably be a much better buy for the slightly increased cost.
*Mobil's definition of SuperSyn: "Mobil SuperSyn PAOs were developed to extend the range of conventional high viscosity PAOs and maintain excellent low temperature fluidity. Mobil SuperSyn PAOs are a class of high viscosity, high Viscosity Index (VI) polyalphaolefins manufactured by Mobil Chemical using patented, proprietary technology."
While it is true that some Amsoil and Mobil1 formulas are groupIII, there are some that are in group IV.
COMMON 5W-20 SYNTHETIC OILS*
Product Name Base Viscosity Index Pour Point °C (°F) Volatility % Weight Loss Four Ball Wear TBN Service Life Suggested Cost (Qt) Cost/ 10 Miles
Para. 1 Para. 3
Amsoil XL (XLF) Group III/ Hydrocracked 196 -51 (-60) 8.8% 0.35 0.38 10.1 7500 Miles/ 6 Months $5.20 4.0 cents
Amsoil (ASL) Group IV/ PAO 182 -51 (-60) 6.9% 0.35 0.40 >11.0 25,000 Miles/ 1 Year $5.85 2.6 cents
Mobil 1 Group IV/ PAO 168 -48 (-54) 9.2% 0.35 0.60 8.5 Mfg. Rec. $4.78 3.7 cents
Pennzoil Synthetic Group II/ Hydrocracked 161 -48 (-54) 5.7% 0.40 0.60 10.0 Mfg. Rec. $4.49 3.6 cents
Valvoline SynPower Group III/ Hydrocracked 164 -44 (-47) 13.1% 0.35 0.55 8.9 Mfg. Rec. $4.48 3.6 cents
Castrol Syntec Group III/ Hydrocracked 147 -39 (-38) 10.0% 0.40 0.61 10.0 Mfg. Rec. $4.47 3.6 cents
Quaker State Full Synthetic Group III/ Hydrocracked 183 -46 (-51) 10.2% 0.35 0.55 7.7 Mfg. Rec. $3.97 3.2 cents
COMMON 10W-30 SYNTHETIC OILS*
Product Name Base Viscosity Index Volatility % Weight Loss Four Ball Wear TBN Service Life Suggested Cost (Qt) Cost/ 10 Miles
Amsoil XL (XLT) Group III/ Hydrocracked 163 4.7% .038 10.2 7500 Miles/ 6 Months $5.20 4.0 cents
Amsoil (ASL) Group IV/ PAO 167 6.6% 0.35 >12.2 25,000 Miles/ 1 Year $5.85 2.6 cents
Mobil 1 Group IV/ PAO 147 11.1% 0.35 8.5 5000 Miles $4.78 5.4 cents
Castrol Group II/ Hydrocracked 159 5.47% 6.81 5000 Miles $4.48 5.1 cents
Shell Group III/ Hydrocracked 140 5000 Miles $4.97 5.6 cents
Pennzoil Group III/ Hydrocracked 150 9.5% 0.65 7.18 5000 Miles $4.49 5.1 cents
Valvoline Group III/ Hydrocracked 140 8.3% 0.40 6.85 5000 Miles $4.48 5.1 cents
Havoline Group III/ Hydrocracked 148 5000 Miles $3.48 4.1 cents
Quaker State Group III/ Hydrocracked 148 12.27% 5000 Miles $3.97 4.6 cents
Not all synthetic oils are equal. Some give better protection and last longer than others, depending on whether they're formulated with Ester or PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) stock. Synthetic oils made from the ester class are much more expensive, but are more durable and hold up under hotter temperatures.
Synthetic oils have different base stocks, which comprise some 90% of the oil. The base stock is the actual lubricant The other 10% or so is the additive package. The relative ability of oils to lubricate is determined by the components of the base stock. There are two principal classes of base stocks used in real synthetic oils: synthesized hydrocarbons (PAOs) and organic esters.
PAOs
The base stock materials used today many popular synthetic oils are made of carbon and hydrogen molecules. These
are synthesized from ethylene gas molecules into PolyAlphaOleflns (PAO). Almost all the synthetic oils sold in the stores are made with PAO base stocks. PAOs provide better viscosity characteristics, are more resistant to oxidation and have much better low operating properties than petroleum oils. PAOs are cheaper synthetic oil base stocks, and aren't as durable as the ester class of synthetic oils. Some of the popular brands of PAO oils include Amsoil and Mobil-1.
These are known as a Group IV oil.
ESTERS (Polyolesters)
Organic esters are made by reacting certain acids with alcohols, forming acid esters. There are alcohol diesters and
Polyol esters. This process uses expensive materials and results in lubricants that cost many times more than PAOs.
Only esters are durable enough to withstand the rigors of jet engine operation and they are used in racing and high performance cars. These oils can cost $8 dollars or more a quart. Redline is an example of an ester synthetic oil.
These are known as a Group V oil.
Hydrocracked (sometimes called Hydrowax)
These are petroleum oils that have been hydroisomerized, as it is commonly called. The most stringent level of petroleum oil refining. Much of the paraffin and impurities have been removed and its performance on any number of industry tests is substantially better than it's group two cousins (the regular oil petroleum oil used in automobiles).
Although it is not made from a synthesized, engineered molecule and as such is not a true synthetic oil, it does offer a portion of the benefits you would expect from a true synthetic and in fact is usually sold and marketed as a 100% synthetic product. Hydrowaxes are very cheap to produce, even cheaper than olefins, making them the cheapest of all the synthetics. As they are formulated from crude oil base stocks they aren't a true synthetic. These are known as a Group III oil. Castrol Syntec is known for using this method.
Quality
Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.
This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap.
Differences in same Brands.
Even the same brand of synthetic oil can have different qualities. Mobil 1 has several different qualities available in the same weights. You can buy 5W/20, 5W/30, 10W/30, 15W/50 Mobil 1 in the "Extended Performance" line as well as in the "normal" line of synthetics for less than a $1 more a quart.
So what is the difference? Here's what the Mobil 1 website has to say about that:
"Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with a boosted level of protection and performance. Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn* System, contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1"
This might indicate that the extended performance synthetic oil has about 50% more synthetic base stock than their regular "fully" synthetic oil. This would probably be a much better buy for the slightly increased cost.
*Mobil's definition of SuperSyn: "Mobil SuperSyn PAOs were developed to extend the range of conventional high viscosity PAOs and maintain excellent low temperature fluidity. Mobil SuperSyn PAOs are a class of high viscosity, high Viscosity Index (VI) polyalphaolefins manufactured by Mobil Chemical using patented, proprietary technology."
While it is true that some Amsoil and Mobil1 formulas are groupIII, there are some that are in group IV.
03-25-2011, 03:35 AM
#36
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No doubt that synthetics last longer. I don't debate that for a second, and I do believe that Amsoil is a better oil. Anytime you purposefully design a product you are going to have a much better result than something you need to distill out of naturally occurring and variable oil. That isn't in (reasonable) question.
The viscosity modifiers are important. You want the oil to be able to flow more easily than usual when it is very cold. An oil is not naturally multi-viscosity. It has one viscosity. The modifiers are what allow the 5w-20 part and not straight 20. Whether class 4 needs more or less initially is besides the point, it is how long can the additives last. 1Are you saying that the viscosity modifiers in the Amsoil last 25k? Honest question.
Isn't used oil analysis $30 at least? If they are so through as to measure the remaining amount of viscosity modifier, I could imagine a higher price yet. At those prices, it is more expensive to check the oil for extended drain than it is to just change it out. Without the money saving part, much better wear protection or fuel economy is a must.
No doubt the tests can be done, but at what price? If the test costs more than an oil change with Mobil-1, it is a net loss unless Amsoil guarantees the engine for 500k miles. For a train engine that is going to take $500 worth of oil to change, or massively expensive repairs it makes a ton of sense. For 6 quarts of oil and an engine under warranty, less so. And what are you planning on doing if the analysis says excessive wear is detected? Go to the dealer and have them check it out?
For people or companies running a fleet of vehicles, very expensive engines repaired at their cost, or expensive to change oil the UOA makes more sense.
I think it is awesome you are volunteering to be a tester. 2011 engines might have changed, the 3.8 said 6k miles in 2009.
For a brand new and under warranty vehicle though I can't see it being much more than a pain in the ass if something goes wrong. The 100k mark should be pretty easily reached by anyone running the crappiest dyno oil, so the guarantee is not the best of the best anyways.
The real benefit of Amsoil (or Mobil-1, Castrol, etc even if to a lesser degree) is the ability to reach well beyond that 100k. For an average use personal vehicle, that is less of a concern. Surely I would prefer my engine to last 500,000 miles - but by then the rest of the vehicle will be completely outdated, worn out, dented, etc. It would be like driving a 1985 vehicle now. Engine okay or not, the car is going to be worthless. For a semi, train, taxi, or any other engine that runs all of the time - that is much more important as those miles come soon.
I am not trying to get your thread derailed, I just think that even if Amsoil lives up to every single one of its claims it is likely to be hype anyways. You aren't going to be driving this vehicle in 20 years. We are on another tech shift now, and electric is going to be the norm sooner than people think. My guess is less than ten years to near total market. So for a personal use vehicle, the benefits of Amsoil need to come down to cheaper (no), more convenience (is it more convenient to get an oil sample for $30 instead of changing the oil for $30 every 6k? I say no), or better mpg, noise, etc (I don't know - but hoping you keep us updated).
The viscosity modifiers are important. You want the oil to be able to flow more easily than usual when it is very cold. An oil is not naturally multi-viscosity. It has one viscosity. The modifiers are what allow the 5w-20 part and not straight 20. Whether class 4 needs more or less initially is besides the point, it is how long can the additives last. 1Are you saying that the viscosity modifiers in the Amsoil last 25k? Honest question.
Isn't used oil analysis $30 at least? If they are so through as to measure the remaining amount of viscosity modifier, I could imagine a higher price yet. At those prices, it is more expensive to check the oil for extended drain than it is to just change it out. Without the money saving part, much better wear protection or fuel economy is a must.
No doubt the tests can be done, but at what price? If the test costs more than an oil change with Mobil-1, it is a net loss unless Amsoil guarantees the engine for 500k miles. For a train engine that is going to take $500 worth of oil to change, or massively expensive repairs it makes a ton of sense. For 6 quarts of oil and an engine under warranty, less so. And what are you planning on doing if the analysis says excessive wear is detected? Go to the dealer and have them check it out?
For people or companies running a fleet of vehicles, very expensive engines repaired at their cost, or expensive to change oil the UOA makes more sense.
I think it is awesome you are volunteering to be a tester. 2011 engines might have changed, the 3.8 said 6k miles in 2009.
For a brand new and under warranty vehicle though I can't see it being much more than a pain in the ass if something goes wrong. The 100k mark should be pretty easily reached by anyone running the crappiest dyno oil, so the guarantee is not the best of the best anyways.
The real benefit of Amsoil (or Mobil-1, Castrol, etc even if to a lesser degree) is the ability to reach well beyond that 100k. For an average use personal vehicle, that is less of a concern. Surely I would prefer my engine to last 500,000 miles - but by then the rest of the vehicle will be completely outdated, worn out, dented, etc. It would be like driving a 1985 vehicle now. Engine okay or not, the car is going to be worthless. For a semi, train, taxi, or any other engine that runs all of the time - that is much more important as those miles come soon.
I am not trying to get your thread derailed, I just think that even if Amsoil lives up to every single one of its claims it is likely to be hype anyways. You aren't going to be driving this vehicle in 20 years. We are on another tech shift now, and electric is going to be the norm sooner than people think. My guess is less than ten years to near total market. So for a personal use vehicle, the benefits of Amsoil need to come down to cheaper (no), more convenience (is it more convenient to get an oil sample for $30 instead of changing the oil for $30 every 6k? I say no), or better mpg, noise, etc (I don't know - but hoping you keep us updated).
$$- The price? With my calculations it is cheaper to run Amsoil with extended drain intervals. Lets just say the oil lasts 15,000 miles. $5.00 a quart for Castrol 5w20, and $8.00 for a filter. Thats $25.00 for oil and $33.00 every 3,000 miles. Thats $165.00 per 15,000 miles. The amsoil would cost $75 for the oil change and $30 for the Oil Analysis. Plus peace of mind and not having to crawl under my Jeep every 3,000 miles. Just a thought.
3- I know Chrysler has to PROVE that your 4 inch lift is what caused the damages to void your warranty. Its the same with oil. They have to take an oil analysis that shows the oil failed. In that case, AMSOIL would have your back if indeed the oil indeed failed. If they cant prove it, they would have to prove your didnt change it every 8,000 miles atleast. This would be impossible with all my oil receipts for my 3 vehicles that are running amsoil. Hassle if something fails under warranty? Maybe. Worth it to me to let my vehicle run WAY past the 100,000 mile warranty? YES. (To me)
4) I can promise you, in the 2011 manual. It says no shorter than 8,000 mile interval. It has nothing about severe or normal service, just 8,000. It probably is because they have an electric oil change indicator that does this, and regular dino oil CAN last up to 10,000 miles, if you were driving on the highway all that time for instance.
Loving the feedback guys, keep it up!
03-25-2011, 03:40 AM
#37
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree. And to the OP, it isn't that I am some Mobil-1 nut, I am running Castrol right now because it was cheaper at the last change. Mobil-1 or any other high quality even if not top tier oil is enough for the average personal driver. Amsoil is really about severe service (racing, towing, plowing) or extended drain, mostly extended drain. If you have a fleet, and can pull oil analysis out of 10% of the fleet, and put off an oil change for another 6k miles 0 that is big money. For the average user it is mainly more expensive. Still think it is better oil, just more expensive. Putting in Amsoil as a "cost saving" measure is not the best idea for personal use. Putting in Amsoil for better protection (even if not needed in average vehicle) makes sense.
03-25-2011, 06:29 AM
#38
JK Freak
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All engine oil is made using regular oil base stocks.
Mobil 1 and Amsoil XL oils are more regular oil than synthetic. Most people regard these as hybrid or synthetic blend (regardless of what the packaging says) These are class III. Royal Purple, High End Amsoil, and other class IV oils are really the closest to full synthetic that you can really get. Learn everything you need to know at bobistheoilguy.com
Mobil 1 and Amsoil XL oils are more regular oil than synthetic. Most people regard these as hybrid or synthetic blend (regardless of what the packaging says) These are class III. Royal Purple, High End Amsoil, and other class IV oils are really the closest to full synthetic that you can really get. Learn everything you need to know at bobistheoilguy.com
03-25-2011, 09:36 AM
#39
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: White Bear Lake, Minnesota
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not trying to get your thread derailed, I just think that even if Amsoil lives up to every single one of its claims it is likely to be hype anyways. You aren't going to be driving this vehicle in 20 years. We are on another tech shift now, and electric is going to be the norm sooner than people think. My guess is less than ten years to near total market. So for a personal use vehicle, the benefits of Amsoil need to come down to cheaper (no), more convenience (is it more convenient to get an oil sample for $30 instead of changing the oil for $30 every 6k? I say no), or better mpg, noise, etc (I don't know - but hoping you keep us updated).
I'm also not too worried about cost justifying the Royal Purple I put in my JK. I'm mean seriously, look around this forum. Does painting stock wheels with bedliner make them perform better on the trail?
I'll be happy to look at the results and then make my decisions with better data, but still based on my particular values.
03-25-2011, 10:10 AM
#40
To the OP have fun following your interest. Quite a few owners of diesel powered PU's around here are using oil analysis to stretch their change intervals to the max.
subscribed
subscribed