2 door vs 4 door offroading
#41
JK Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: West Richland Washington
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Clearance and breakover are different. Clearance is measured in inches. Breakover is measured in degrees. You gain no clearance since, as you said, axles and diff's are unchanged. The increase in breakover on a four door will be a lot less than on a two door for the same lift--or the same tires--because of the four door's extra length.
Finally, lifting does not automatically increase articulation. It depends on shock selection and bumpstop extensions, and those are (or should be) driven by tire size, wheel offset and wheel well fender clearance. It is much more complicated than just increasing lift to gain articulation.
Finally, lifting does not automatically increase articulation. It depends on shock selection and bumpstop extensions, and those are (or should be) driven by tire size, wheel offset and wheel well fender clearance. It is much more complicated than just increasing lift to gain articulation.
#42
JK Jedi Master
Chassis clearance isn't something folks normally compare. The four key numbers are approach angle, departure angle, breakover angle and ground clearance. While I could see where one might argue that raising the chassis while keeping ground clearance the same offers certain scenarios where an obstacle could be crossed, this is simply not a number that folks normally bother to compare. In fact, if Jeep (or any other manufacturer) were to start doing so, they'd quickly by called out by the off-roading community for padding their performance numbers to mislead the consumer. Please don't give them any ideas. ;-)
Last edited by Mark Doiron; 05-24-2014 at 10:38 AM.
#43
In all my offroading years, I don't remember ever hitting a differential or getting stuck because of it. I do remember quite a few times when I could use a smaller break-over angle, or more belly clearance, or whatever you wish to call it.
Reducing the chance of hitting something with Jeeps belly, or 'sitting' it on something, is what lifting does, inch per inch.
(take into account that I do pretty tough terrain, but not extreme rock crawling.)
However, to get a belly lift of 4" by using bigger wheels, would take ~40" wheels, which is not what the vast majority of Jeepers here would do.
The increase in breakover on a four door will be a lot less than on a two door for the same lift--or the same tires--because of the four door's extra length.
I said --
"As for the break-over angle, I think that a 2-dr overall handling is much better with 2.5" lift [vs 4"], while a 4-dr handles nicely with 4" lift -- this decreases from the ground clearance [read -'belly clearance'] advantage of the 2-dr."
Finally, lifting does not automatically increase articulation. It depends on shock selection and bumpstop extensions, and those are (or should be) driven by tire size, wheel offset and wheel well fender clearance. It is much more complicated than just increasing lift to gain articulation.
This is what I said --
"Unlike larger wheels, a lift also allows increasing the articulation."
Last edited by GJeep; 05-24-2014 at 12:21 PM.
#44
#45
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EDIT: I apologize if anyone saw my first response here. I am not feeling well, and irritable because of it. I have rewritten it to be a bit more polite.
Chassis clearance isn't something folks normally compare. The four key numbers are approach angle, departure angle, breakover angle and ground clearance. While I could see where one might argue that raising the chassis while keeping ground clearance the same offers certain scenarios where an obstacle could be crossed, this is simply not a number that folks normally bother to compare. In fact, if Jeep (or any other manufacturer) were to start doing so, they'd quickly by called out by the off-roading community for padding their performance numbers to mislead the consumer. Please don't give them any ideas. ;-)
Chassis clearance isn't something folks normally compare. The four key numbers are approach angle, departure angle, breakover angle and ground clearance. While I could see where one might argue that raising the chassis while keeping ground clearance the same offers certain scenarios where an obstacle could be crossed, this is simply not a number that folks normally bother to compare. In fact, if Jeep (or any other manufacturer) were to start doing so, they'd quickly by called out by the off-roading community for padding their performance numbers to mislead the consumer. Please don't give them any ideas. ;-)
#46
And here's another situation where the four door is better than the two door. Yes, it's an unusual formation, but rocks aren't all that usual, which I suppose is why we enjoy crawling over them ... <img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=555057"/> And I was traveling behind a two door JK for 35 miles our to the north rim of the eastern end of the Grand Canyon last year and he was having great difficulty keeping his Jeep traveling straight down that washboard road. My ride was filling-jarring rough, but at least my Jeep went where I pointed it.
Great illustration!
Both my brothers have tj's and a guy I wheel with a lot has a tj on 36’s. I out-climbed them time and time again with my old jku with open diffs. I would however hang my belly on the crests of those climbs sometimes but hey - at least I would make it up :-)
The statement "the only thing a 4-door can do better is pull a boat" is just plain ignorance.
Now stretch a 2- door by 10" - now that's a different story :-)
#47
And the vote goes to... :
Directional Stability: 4-dr
Steep inclines/declines: 4-dr
Break-over angle: 2-dr, when both the 2-dr and 4-dr are with no (or the same) lift and wheel size.
Turning Radius: 2-dr. However... we have a lot of narrow woody trails here, and it's not often that I need 3-point turns with the JKU.
Storage Space: 4-dr
Bottom line... :
Overall, the 4-dr is more capable and less prone to get stuck or capsize, in more offroad situations than a 2-dr is.
It's also less jumpy and more comfortable to drive both on and off road.
The 2-dr has unrivaled unique charm.
Both are very capable, so respect the 20" shorter/longer Jeep... and have fun
Directional Stability: 4-dr
Steep inclines/declines: 4-dr
Break-over angle: 2-dr, when both the 2-dr and 4-dr are with no (or the same) lift and wheel size.
However --
I think that for good overall handling and stability, either on or off road, a 2-dr should have 2.5" lift, and 4-dr should have a 4" lift.
With this lifting difference (but the same wheel size), the 2-dr break-over angle advantage is diminished.
I think that for good overall handling and stability, either on or off road, a 2-dr should have 2.5" lift, and 4-dr should have a 4" lift.
With this lifting difference (but the same wheel size), the 2-dr break-over angle advantage is diminished.
Storage Space: 4-dr
Bottom line... :
Overall, the 4-dr is more capable and less prone to get stuck or capsize, in more offroad situations than a 2-dr is.
It's also less jumpy and more comfortable to drive both on and off road.
The 2-dr has unrivaled unique charm.
Both are very capable, so respect the 20" shorter/longer Jeep... and have fun
Last edited by GJeep; 05-25-2014 at 07:55 AM.
#50
I've seen Jeeps or even SUVs cross obstacles, while better modded Jeeps had difficulty at the same spot.
Driver experience, skill and judgement are more important than the vehicle. Picking a line a few inches to the right or left, exact use of gas or brake pedal, etc', patience rather than brute force attack on an obstacle, make more difference than the type of Jeep.
Remember that offroading driving and obstacle crossing is a learning curve that never stops.
Recovery, too, is a subject about which you can always learn new methods or improvisations. Just a small example: The jeep is stuck on soft sand on the beach and there's absolutely nothing to put under the wheels? -- You got the floor mats, or a blanket.
Watch the other drivers, analyze why did one Jeep cross smoothly while another spins wheel or slides sideways.
It takes a lot of practice before you can materialize the full potential of either the 2 or 4-dr Jeep.