So I have almost rolled backwards end-over-end now on two occasions. These were both very steep obstacles, and what I think is happening (other than the obstacles being 8-9 feet tall and very steep) is that the front springs unload once most of the engine weight gets transferred behind the axle.

Many competition rigs have a set-up where they hook their front winch to a mounting point on the front axle. They leave this connected when crawling and simply crank down on the front end when stuff gets steep. It works incredibly well. It is a very direct setup for them because their axles are usually way out in front of the rig. With our JK's, the front end is pretty far ahead of the axle, so it is not as direct of an installation. The winch cable would need to be routed via pulley etc. to get a better direct pull upwards on the axle.

Has anyone seen or done anything like this on a JK yet?

 

I was thinking the same thing. This happens to me a lot. Would it be possible to mount a small atv winch to the frame above the axle?

 

The pulley is for increased mechanical leverage. Most of the comp guys are using LITTLE winches to accomodate the suck down in the rear.

The first question is why do they do it? The answer is to prevent to pogo effect of the coils as the axle unloads. It also can be used to lower COG on tippy stuff.

With a front winch on a vehicle with conventional mechanical steering, there's precious little room to work with. Comp rigs are full hydro and don't have a drag link to get in the way. On my TJ, I rerouted the cable to go straight down from winch to axle. Other wise it would take a couple of turning blocks to get the cable to pull straight down.

The pull pretty much needs to be straight up and down or it doesn't work well....

 

It's called a suck down winch and is usually a separate winch than the one on your front bumper. Most guys use a 1500lb ATV winch because of size, and you just don't need that much power. Basically you need to fab a bracket to mount the winch to the frame inline with the springs. Then run the cable down and along the axle (using the proper pulleys) and connect the cable on the opposite side at the frame. Engage the winch and suck down your front end!

 

I think we all know what it is, and how it should work, but the question remains, has anyone done this on a JK? There doesn't seem to be any room to get even a 1500 lb. winch tucked in anywhere, so using the front winch with a series of pulleys/blocks, seems to be the best option. It almost looks like the tubular frame brace might be one routing point.

 

Its just fabrication. Drill a big hole in the bottom of the winch plate and figure out the routing. It'll probably require another cross member to get a straight pull.

Considering the size and weight of a JK its putting lipstick on a pig. Don't forget that every comp rig also runs several hundred pounds of water in the tires to keep the front end planted too.... Just winching the front end down doesn't solve the COG problem.

 

I just ran a trail with 3 competition buggies, all of which use this, and none of which use water in their tires. They all boast it's usefulness. It might not be the only thing to fix this issue, but sucking the front end down 12" when you're about to roll backward will make a noticeable difference.

As for routing the rope differently, I am not sure this is the best answer becuase it makes the winch very difficult to use for normal forward winching (if necessary).

 

Lets see some pics of your rig on these 8 foot ledges sounds cool.

 

I'd like some pics too. The guy that was filming it had to drop his camera and join the other 3 that were holding onto the rope to keep me from going. They all said they almost had to let go. Scared the living S#@! out of me, especially considering I just finished dropping in my Hemi....what a waste that would have been. This one was widow maker in Moab, and the second was an optional ledge going up Poughkeepsie in Ouray.

The Poughkeepsie ledge only looks to be about 6 feet, until you realize where your rear driver tire sits in comparison to the front right. I have made this one a couple of times before, but not with the Hemi. The additional weight above the axle seems to be enhancing this issue, so I think a little help keeping the front sucked down would go a long way. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the Poughkeepsie rock.

 

The argument for a tube buggy that has the bulk of its weight below the frame rails is easy to make. Especially on a rear engine car where the only weight over the front axle is your feet, the winch makes a huge difference. Running in on my Comp TJ had a good effect for keeping the axle from pushing you out from steep stuff, but didn't help that much in change the COG. Water in the tires made the biggest difference and I'm shocked that buggy guys AREN'T running it. That's just silly. The biggest improvement in stability is in creating more unsprung weight.

I did not find with my experiences that it made enough of a difference with a full bodied car to use it frequently. I did run the 04 Calrocs series in the the TJ and the 06 UROC series as a spotter for an unlimited class buggy as a spotter. Its not my first trip around the merry go round.