At what point do you need a beef axle?
04-28-2013, 05:01 AM
#21
JK Jedi
The driver is the biggest factor when it comes to breaking an axle, I know a guy that has run 40's on his dana 30 for over a year with some pretty hard wheeling. He even races it. If you are rammy and bounce your rig you are going to break something at some point.
That being said a dana 44 should be the choice for running 33"-37" tires so you have the ring and pinion strength of the bigger tires. Proper gearing will have an affect on the strength of the axle as well as the whole drivetrain.
A front axle does not need to be as strong as the rear as the rear ends up seeing the bulk of the stress during climbs since the weight shifts to the rear under acceleration. The only time the front sees this kind of weight on the axle is when you are going down a steep hill and typically you are on the brakes. That and if you are jumping your rig.
The only front r&p/spider gear failures I have seen on a dana 30 were oversized tires on stock gearing trying to get the front wheels up a steep or climbing a bolder.
Personally if it were me, I would not throw that kind of money into a dana 30. Going with a rubi take off is a good option if you can find one with the gearing you are looking for and you will also gain the locker for around $2000. Most of them that are already re geared will also have the sleeves and gussets as well and will be just a simple bolt on and a 12 volt switch wired to the dash.
If you don't want to worry about your front axle the pro rock is the way to go, go full balls with the arb and 35 spline axles shafts and reid high steer knuckles. I would also get one custom made in a 68.5" width or wider to accommodate the turn radius of bigger tires and eliminate spacers. They will also build it to castor correct the pinion angle for the size lift you are running. Every part of the pro rock 44 is stronger over the factory with a stronger diff housing, tubes, inner c's, and the brackets.
They do cost but if you are going to play you got to pay. Might as well do it once and be done.
That being said a dana 44 should be the choice for running 33"-37" tires so you have the ring and pinion strength of the bigger tires. Proper gearing will have an affect on the strength of the axle as well as the whole drivetrain.
A front axle does not need to be as strong as the rear as the rear ends up seeing the bulk of the stress during climbs since the weight shifts to the rear under acceleration. The only time the front sees this kind of weight on the axle is when you are going down a steep hill and typically you are on the brakes. That and if you are jumping your rig.
The only front r&p/spider gear failures I have seen on a dana 30 were oversized tires on stock gearing trying to get the front wheels up a steep or climbing a bolder.
Personally if it were me, I would not throw that kind of money into a dana 30. Going with a rubi take off is a good option if you can find one with the gearing you are looking for and you will also gain the locker for around $2000. Most of them that are already re geared will also have the sleeves and gussets as well and will be just a simple bolt on and a 12 volt switch wired to the dash.
If you don't want to worry about your front axle the pro rock is the way to go, go full balls with the arb and 35 spline axles shafts and reid high steer knuckles. I would also get one custom made in a 68.5" width or wider to accommodate the turn radius of bigger tires and eliminate spacers. They will also build it to castor correct the pinion angle for the size lift you are running. Every part of the pro rock 44 is stronger over the factory with a stronger diff housing, tubes, inner c's, and the brackets.
They do cost but if you are going to play you got to pay. Might as well do it once and be done.
04-28-2013, 06:04 AM
#22
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Hmmmm, thanks for all the VERY useful advice.
Yeah I considered the rubi takeoff, but people keep saying it's not that much better than the D30, and over here it would cost me 3k. And at that price i get 4.10, and not the 4.56 i want, and still have to solidify it with truss and gussets... 5k later i shoulda bought a PR.
Well i'm on 35s, will never go bigger than that ( and may shrink to 34 if i find a tire i like), and i'm thinking my regear will help a lot with easing the pain on my axle since on my current 3.73 i have to force it all the time. Also since i am getting 4.56 gears, and not something like 5.13, sounds from what i have heard that the gears won't be as small/weak as with the lower ratios.
Besides, i'm not redoing the rear axle for sure, so how much point can there be in redoing only the front?
That's the rationale. After hearing you guys i think i'll just beef up my current D30 and stop being a high speed idiot on the trail.
Thanks for helping!
Yeah I considered the rubi takeoff, but people keep saying it's not that much better than the D30, and over here it would cost me 3k. And at that price i get 4.10, and not the 4.56 i want, and still have to solidify it with truss and gussets... 5k later i shoulda bought a PR.
Well i'm on 35s, will never go bigger than that ( and may shrink to 34 if i find a tire i like), and i'm thinking my regear will help a lot with easing the pain on my axle since on my current 3.73 i have to force it all the time. Also since i am getting 4.56 gears, and not something like 5.13, sounds from what i have heard that the gears won't be as small/weak as with the lower ratios.
Besides, i'm not redoing the rear axle for sure, so how much point can there be in redoing only the front?
That's the rationale. After hearing you guys i think i'll just beef up my current D30 and stop being a high speed idiot on the trail.
Thanks for helping!
04-29-2013, 11:01 AM
#24
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If you did replace the shafts the next weak link will be the small D30 ring and pinion. A possible $1200-1800 repair (plus the $800 you would have spent on chromo shafts). Stick with the stock shafts, a much cheaper repair (usually $100 on the forum).
04-29-2013, 11:05 AM
#25
JK Super Freak
After reading this board a lot, you would think the D30 is like glass, but I found that to not be the case so much. Sure the gears are tiny (and that's why I still have my 4.10's), but the housing isn't half bad. I was always led to believe the PR44 was the way to go, and sure, it's one hell of a housing, but after taking my stock D30 onto the dunes and going over some whoops fast enough to bottom out each time and thrash us around, I can say that the D30 holds up pretty well.
I was very concerned about bent c's on my D30, but I went faster than I even felt comfortable going over some huge whoops in the sand and was catching air left and right bottoming out quite hard, and yet my c's are still in perfect alignment, and the hosing has no damage at all. This is a totally stock D30, without gussets at all. Now, do I want a PR44? Of course, it looks magnificent and I'd probably feel more comfortable doing the driving I was doing on my D30, but I can say without a doubt that the D30 housing can take a beating. I do have 35's, and if you had bigger tires I'd suggest probably leaning towards a different housing simply because of the gears in a D30.
I have yet to run 5.13's in a D30 housing, so I can't be certain of the strength of the gears themselves, but the housing itself is pretty stout. If you're playing on huge rocks with a lot of leverage and torque then I would probably suggest upgrading to a bigger housing that can handle bigger gears, but for playing on the sand and dirt roads, it's really not bad.
I was very concerned about bent c's on my D30, but I went faster than I even felt comfortable going over some huge whoops in the sand and was catching air left and right bottoming out quite hard, and yet my c's are still in perfect alignment, and the hosing has no damage at all. This is a totally stock D30, without gussets at all. Now, do I want a PR44? Of course, it looks magnificent and I'd probably feel more comfortable doing the driving I was doing on my D30, but I can say without a doubt that the D30 housing can take a beating. I do have 35's, and if you had bigger tires I'd suggest probably leaning towards a different housing simply because of the gears in a D30.
I have yet to run 5.13's in a D30 housing, so I can't be certain of the strength of the gears themselves, but the housing itself is pretty stout. If you're playing on huge rocks with a lot of leverage and torque then I would probably suggest upgrading to a bigger housing that can handle bigger gears, but for playing on the sand and dirt roads, it's really not bad.
04-29-2013, 11:59 AM
#26
JK Freak
I have seen guys with 5.13 and locked up on rocks with the stock housing set ups with no problems.
But I've also seen guys with 5.13 with no lockers just playing around on moderate trails who have completely destroyed teeth.
I am a firm believer that the install and the driver have a LOT to do with how well your gears hold up.
But I've also seen guys with 5.13 with no lockers just playing around on moderate trails who have completely destroyed teeth.
I am a firm believer that the install and the driver have a LOT to do with how well your gears hold up.
04-29-2013, 01:07 PM
#27
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Something that doesn't get mentioned much the way your driving style changes once you have the proper gear ratio. Having the proper gears to match your tire size makes a world of a difference in how you can simply crawl over obstacles with very little effort/gas. I'd bet most of the guys that have seen failures on their stock axles were due to the fact that they were running 35's or 37's on 3.73 gears and had to floor it or get a running start just to get up a little hill or boulder.
When I was running 35's on 3.73 gears I was simply terrified on the trails. I had to floor it to keep my RPM's up and ended up stalling and banging around on things. I regeared to 4.88 and now I just crawl over/up/down obstacles like it was nothing. I'm not spinning tires or bouncing anymore.
Yes, the ring and pinon on a D30 is small, but if it's geared properly and you drive it properly, it can last you a long time. I regeared 2 years ago and left the D30 unlocked. I don't have sleeves or gussets, and I've wheeled some pretty hardcore stuff in Colorado and Moab. No issues at all with the D30. I may have been lucky, but a regear was a minimal investment compared to an entire axle swap. I know that if I taco the housing tomorrow, I gave myself time to save for a ProRock or Tera 44, but I sleep well at night knowing that I got 2+ years out of the D30 after only spending a few hundred bucks on a regear.
When I was running 35's on 3.73 gears I was simply terrified on the trails. I had to floor it to keep my RPM's up and ended up stalling and banging around on things. I regeared to 4.88 and now I just crawl over/up/down obstacles like it was nothing. I'm not spinning tires or bouncing anymore.
Yes, the ring and pinon on a D30 is small, but if it's geared properly and you drive it properly, it can last you a long time. I regeared 2 years ago and left the D30 unlocked. I don't have sleeves or gussets, and I've wheeled some pretty hardcore stuff in Colorado and Moab. No issues at all with the D30. I may have been lucky, but a regear was a minimal investment compared to an entire axle swap. I know that if I taco the housing tomorrow, I gave myself time to save for a ProRock or Tera 44, but I sleep well at night knowing that I got 2+ years out of the D30 after only spending a few hundred bucks on a regear.
04-29-2013, 04:02 PM
#28
JK Junkie
Something that doesn't get mentioned much the way your driving style changes once you have the proper gear ratio. Having the proper gears to match your tire size makes a world of a difference in how you can simply crawl over obstacles with very little effort/gas. I'd bet most of the guys that have seen failures on their stock axles were due to the fact that they were running 35's or 37's on 3.73 gears and had to floor it or get a running start just to get up a little hill or boulder.
When I was running 35's on 3.73 gears I was simply terrified on the trails. I had to floor it to keep my RPM's up and ended up stalling and banging around on things. I regeared to 4.88 and now I just crawl over/up/down obstacles like it was nothing. I'm not spinning tires or bouncing anymore.
Yes, the ring and pinon on a D30 is small, but if it's geared properly and you drive it properly, it can last you a long time. I regeared 2 years ago and left the D30 unlocked. I don't have sleeves or gussets, and I've wheeled some pretty hardcore stuff in Colorado and Moab. No issues at all with the D30. I may have been lucky, but a regear was a minimal investment compared to an entire axle swap. I know that if I taco the housing tomorrow, I gave myself time to save for a ProRock or Tera 44, but I sleep well at night knowing that I got 2+ years out of the D30 after only spending a few hundred bucks on a regear.
When I was running 35's on 3.73 gears I was simply terrified on the trails. I had to floor it to keep my RPM's up and ended up stalling and banging around on things. I regeared to 4.88 and now I just crawl over/up/down obstacles like it was nothing. I'm not spinning tires or bouncing anymore.
Yes, the ring and pinon on a D30 is small, but if it's geared properly and you drive it properly, it can last you a long time. I regeared 2 years ago and left the D30 unlocked. I don't have sleeves or gussets, and I've wheeled some pretty hardcore stuff in Colorado and Moab. No issues at all with the D30. I may have been lucky, but a regear was a minimal investment compared to an entire axle swap. I know that if I taco the housing tomorrow, I gave myself time to save for a ProRock or Tera 44, but I sleep well at night knowing that I got 2+ years out of the D30 after only spending a few hundred bucks on a regear.
04-29-2013, 04:32 PM
#29
JK Enthusiast
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Man you yanks and your low prices... Canadian prices: Truss and gussets will cost me 850$ installed, and regear 1000$ installed.
Thats plus 15% sales tax btw :/
Excellent point from poster above concerning gearing and associated driving style. My 35"/3.73. Rig takes a swing before hitting that obstacle just to get over it, whereas i remember when i was bone stock, same gears with 32" tires, it had alot more torque and i could coast over obstacles without stressing anything.
So regearing is, after a fashion, a kind of protective mod.
Thats plus 15% sales tax btw :/
Excellent point from poster above concerning gearing and associated driving style. My 35"/3.73. Rig takes a swing before hitting that obstacle just to get over it, whereas i remember when i was bone stock, same gears with 32" tires, it had alot more torque and i could coast over obstacles without stressing anything.
So regearing is, after a fashion, a kind of protective mod.
04-29-2013, 04:57 PM
#30
JK Jedi Master
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To add a point to the 'offroad driving style' argument, there are plenty of posts and pics from people that have bent their c's or housings with onroad driving. There was even a nice pic of a shattered housing from a low speed encounter with a curb. These are by far the minority, just saying that there are considerations other than how hardcore you are in the rocks.