Weight, Aerodynamics, and Power Considerations
#21
So a little update:
My wife and I went out of town for our anniversary this weekend. Friday morning, I decided to take the Garvin rack off the Jeep to see if I could see any sort of difference. I learned very quickly how "permanent" of an installation these things are. I could tell by some of the mounting points that holes had been drilled through the body, but I didn't consider things like the stock license plate bracket, which is completely removed for the rack installation. In other words, I now have no place to bolt the license plate and light. It's currently zip-tied in place, and will probably stay that way until I put the rack back on. Another discovery was just how HEAVY the damn thing is. The main basket alone probably weighs 80-90 lbs. It's nice and solid for sure, but removing 100+ lbs from the top of the Jeep certainly isn't hurting me.
I also have completely developed a hate relationship with the Tuffy trunk. Since the baby was staying with my parents while we were gone, I need to load up a decent amount of bulky stuff - portable crib, stroller, a few duffels, charcoal, ice chest, etc. The lid of the trunk is just mounted too low to be usable. Its lack of lid support made it a pain to try to organize around. I finally just took the lid off completely (another fairly heavy piece) and will uninstall the rest of it this week.
I zero out my Average Economy meter with each fill-up. My typical tank of gas settles in around 15 mpg with my typical city and highway driving. I hand-calculate as well, and I find it's pretty accurate. I took the rack off with about 30 miles on this tank, and after the weekend, I have about 190 miles on the tank. As of this morning my average MPG is reading 17.1 mpg! If I was solely driving highway, I would predict at least 1 more mpg. I'm pleased.
My wife and I went out of town for our anniversary this weekend. Friday morning, I decided to take the Garvin rack off the Jeep to see if I could see any sort of difference. I learned very quickly how "permanent" of an installation these things are. I could tell by some of the mounting points that holes had been drilled through the body, but I didn't consider things like the stock license plate bracket, which is completely removed for the rack installation. In other words, I now have no place to bolt the license plate and light. It's currently zip-tied in place, and will probably stay that way until I put the rack back on. Another discovery was just how HEAVY the damn thing is. The main basket alone probably weighs 80-90 lbs. It's nice and solid for sure, but removing 100+ lbs from the top of the Jeep certainly isn't hurting me.
I also have completely developed a hate relationship with the Tuffy trunk. Since the baby was staying with my parents while we were gone, I need to load up a decent amount of bulky stuff - portable crib, stroller, a few duffels, charcoal, ice chest, etc. The lid of the trunk is just mounted too low to be usable. Its lack of lid support made it a pain to try to organize around. I finally just took the lid off completely (another fairly heavy piece) and will uninstall the rest of it this week.
I zero out my Average Economy meter with each fill-up. My typical tank of gas settles in around 15 mpg with my typical city and highway driving. I hand-calculate as well, and I find it's pretty accurate. I took the rack off with about 30 miles on this tank, and after the weekend, I have about 190 miles on the tank. As of this morning my average MPG is reading 17.1 mpg! If I was solely driving highway, I would predict at least 1 more mpg. I'm pleased.
#22
For overland and exploring if you wanted gas mileage and power the 2012+ address that a bit and if you want more then the Toyota 4runner or fj100.
There really isn't a whole lot with these things that can improve I'd like to see a diesel conversion that is semi economical to swap....
So if jeep comes out with one then drive this build it and learn what works for you, then when/if the diesel comes out you can grab one and swap over stuff or take what you learned and move forward...
I'm a Toyota guy as well so I know them well and a jeep guh as well lol....love em both.
Things you can do to Improve mpg and zip....but limits what you can do.
1- keep it low
2- keep top on it creates drag otherwise
3- remove all stuff hanging off vehicle ie rack, lights sticking up and out
4- skinnier tires less rotational mass (1lb of rotational mass is like adding 8 lbs to a rig)
5- super chips programmer use economy tune and 91 octane
6- stay off the pedal no hard acceleration
7- remove any unneeded weight from jeep
8- zero resistant plug wires and hotter plugs
Just a few things that together will be OK individually there's a couple that yield a little more than others...
There really isn't a whole lot with these things that can improve I'd like to see a diesel conversion that is semi economical to swap....
So if jeep comes out with one then drive this build it and learn what works for you, then when/if the diesel comes out you can grab one and swap over stuff or take what you learned and move forward...
I'm a Toyota guy as well so I know them well and a jeep guh as well lol....love em both.
Things you can do to Improve mpg and zip....but limits what you can do.
1- keep it low
2- keep top on it creates drag otherwise
3- remove all stuff hanging off vehicle ie rack, lights sticking up and out
4- skinnier tires less rotational mass (1lb of rotational mass is like adding 8 lbs to a rig)
5- super chips programmer use economy tune and 91 octane
6- stay off the pedal no hard acceleration
7- remove any unneeded weight from jeep
8- zero resistant plug wires and hotter plugs
Just a few things that together will be OK individually there's a couple that yield a little more than others...
Last edited by BRUT4CE; 10-21-2013 at 08:46 AM.
#23
People commonly talk about things like weight, aerodynamics, and lack of power, when they talk about the JK. One thing I've learned with the five JKs I've owned, is that fixing the lack of power fixes the other problems. Right about the 500 horsepower level you start to realize that weight and aerodynamics are the farthest things from your mind. Fix the lack of horsepower and the JK becomes a fantastic machine to drive. Of course you wont get better fuel mileage, but it sure is fun.
Last edited by MOPWR2U; 10-21-2013 at 09:13 AM.
#24
For overland and exploring if you wanted gas mileage and power the 2012+ address that a bit and if you want more then the Toyota 4runner or fj100.
There really isn't a whole lot with these things that can improve I'd like to see a diesel conversion that is semi economical to swap....
So if jeep comes out with one then drive this build it and learn what works for you, then when/if the diesel comes out you can grab one and swap over stuff or take what you learned and move forward...
I'm a Toyota guy as well so I know them well and a jeep guh as well lol....love em both.
Things you can do to Improve mpg and zip....but limits what you can do.
1- keep it low
2- keep top on it creates drag otherwise
3- remove all stuff hanging off vehicle ie rack, lights sticking up and out
4- skinnier tires less rotational mass (1lb of rotational mass is like adding 8 lbs to a rig)
5- super chips programmer use economy tune and 91 octane
6- stay off the pedal no hard acceleration
7- remove any unneeded weight from jeep
8- zero resistant plug wires and hotter plugs
Just a few things that together will be OK individually there's a couple that yield a little more than others...
There really isn't a whole lot with these things that can improve I'd like to see a diesel conversion that is semi economical to swap....
So if jeep comes out with one then drive this build it and learn what works for you, then when/if the diesel comes out you can grab one and swap over stuff or take what you learned and move forward...
I'm a Toyota guy as well so I know them well and a jeep guh as well lol....love em both.
Things you can do to Improve mpg and zip....but limits what you can do.
1- keep it low
2- keep top on it creates drag otherwise
3- remove all stuff hanging off vehicle ie rack, lights sticking up and out
4- skinnier tires less rotational mass (1lb of rotational mass is like adding 8 lbs to a rig)
5- super chips programmer use economy tune and 91 octane
6- stay off the pedal no hard acceleration
7- remove any unneeded weight from jeep
8- zero resistant plug wires and hotter plugs
Just a few things that together will be OK individually there's a couple that yield a little more than others...
I want to clarify, as I'm looking for opinions here, I'm not at all complaining about the Jeep I bought. I knew full-well what I was getting into as far as power and economy, so I'm not disappointed in my purchase. I'm just opening the conversation of intelligent additions for my needs (and maybe others can benefit).
Thanks for the input so far, and I'll look forward to continuing the conversation.
#25
I totally agree with HardRooster on the Jeep aerodynamics.
I'd add that the poor aerodynamics starts being a meaningful factor at around 60~70 mph, and is a non-issue at slower city speed.
Yes, the stock bumper helps air flow around the front wheels, but in view of the overall 'cube aerodynamics', I'm doubtful that any bumper would make a meaningful difference.
I'd prefer a full-width bumper anyway, for protection. Better fix a bumper, than replace a wheel and steering parts.
On an aerodynamic car, a rack would be a greater factor than on a Jeep, but it certainly creates much drag, much more than any change of bumper.
However, as a DD which does relatively slow city drives, you're under the speed where rack drag becomes an issue, and for overlanding you intend to use it...
As unlike aerodynamics & drag, additional weight has its influence at any speed, I'd save weight when picking all the extra gear -- Ropes instead of straps, lighter snatch block, lighter tarp/tent/stakes, air tools weigh much less than electric tools, two Optima yellow tops are lighter than regular batteries, etc'.
That being said, in spite of my attempts to save weight, loaded for offroading, my JKU weighs about 2.5 tons (5,500+ lbs)...
In order to be as strong as steel, the Aluminium alloy has to be much thicker, which "swallows" much of the weight reduction.
I'd add that the poor aerodynamics starts being a meaningful factor at around 60~70 mph, and is a non-issue at slower city speed.
Yes, the stock bumper helps air flow around the front wheels, but in view of the overall 'cube aerodynamics', I'm doubtful that any bumper would make a meaningful difference.
I'd prefer a full-width bumper anyway, for protection. Better fix a bumper, than replace a wheel and steering parts.
On an aerodynamic car, a rack would be a greater factor than on a Jeep, but it certainly creates much drag, much more than any change of bumper.
However, as a DD which does relatively slow city drives, you're under the speed where rack drag becomes an issue, and for overlanding you intend to use it...
As unlike aerodynamics & drag, additional weight has its influence at any speed, I'd save weight when picking all the extra gear -- Ropes instead of straps, lighter snatch block, lighter tarp/tent/stakes, air tools weigh much less than electric tools, two Optima yellow tops are lighter than regular batteries, etc'.
That being said, in spite of my attempts to save weight, loaded for offroading, my JKU weighs about 2.5 tons (5,500+ lbs)...
Funny thing is, Amazon lists the weight of the XHD steel bumper at 68 lbs, but lists the aluminum version at 62.5 lbs.
Last edited by GJeep; 10-22-2013 at 03:21 AM.
#26
Never expected to see JK's and aerodynamics mentioned together
I would never put a supercharger in any wrangler, put the money along with your 3.8 and move up to a 2013 or 2014
I get decent mileage on my 2012 2 door JK
I have heavy bumpers, rock rails and heavy tires
I'm about to add a bunch more weight with stronger axles and taller, heavier and wider tires
I also have no problems with my winch blocking airflow
If your looking for new bumpers check out the Ace Engineering stuff, I have their bumpers and rock rails and have been very happy with them
The factory bumpers are crap, I had my mechanic save the old bumpers and they were cheap and unbelievably lightweight. I was extremely surprised how poorly they were constructed and if I ever had to depend on those in a collision I'd probably sustain a lot of damage
I'd love to see the Ace bumpers tested
Matthew
I would never put a supercharger in any wrangler, put the money along with your 3.8 and move up to a 2013 or 2014
I get decent mileage on my 2012 2 door JK
I have heavy bumpers, rock rails and heavy tires
I'm about to add a bunch more weight with stronger axles and taller, heavier and wider tires
I also have no problems with my winch blocking airflow
If your looking for new bumpers check out the Ace Engineering stuff, I have their bumpers and rock rails and have been very happy with them
The factory bumpers are crap, I had my mechanic save the old bumpers and they were cheap and unbelievably lightweight. I was extremely surprised how poorly they were constructed and if I ever had to depend on those in a collision I'd probably sustain a lot of damage
I'd love to see the Ace bumpers tested
Matthew