Teraflex Drag Link Flip kit results
10-20-2009, 09:00 AM
#21
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10-20-2009, 02:33 PM
#22
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Personally I do not think it matters if you raise or lower the track bar. I think it matters the most if it is level or not for roll center. Now, I may be wrong, but that is just how I see it.
I am going to lift the track bar up, I kow it will solve the problem.
Lift height should not make a difference with this kit at all. They either move together or they do not, plain and simple. Mine, do not. However, it is possible that there is a sweet spot where the arcs cross and the bump steer would be minimized.
Thanks to everyone for you comments and suggestions. Especially Teraflex. This in no way would keep me from supporting you guys. Just because it is not working for me does not mean it does not work.
Now, where is my plasma cutter, welder, and bracketry.....
I am going to lift the track bar up, I kow it will solve the problem.
Lift height should not make a difference with this kit at all. They either move together or they do not, plain and simple. Mine, do not. However, it is possible that there is a sweet spot where the arcs cross and the bump steer would be minimized.
Thanks to everyone for you comments and suggestions. Especially Teraflex. This in no way would keep me from supporting you guys. Just because it is not working for me does not mean it does not work.
Now, where is my plasma cutter, welder, and bracketry.....
10-20-2009, 03:18 PM
#23
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I couldn’t really see a 4” lift offered by Rusty’s so I assume you have his 3.25” lift plus spring spacers. With this kit Rusty is using an adjustable rear track bar rather than a relocation bracket. Let me say here that adding a 1" spacer to a kit, any brand will effect the way it handles, usually in a negative way. If you have not installed a rear bracket yet I would recommend that you do. Because the rear track bar attaches to the frame on the right side and the axle on the left side you can be sure your rear “Tail wag” is impacting your bump steer condition. I know it sounds strange to change something on the rear when everything you’re focused on is in the front but it will be worth it.
I think it’s important to mention that when talking about roll centers you should not prejudice upward or downward movement with “good” or “bad” rather look at it as adjusting your roll center for the best performance.
When TeraFlex developed the 4” long Arm kits we now sell for the JK we designed it in a computer program using all of our experience at our disposal. We then build a few prototypes and go test them. We test them in every condition and terrain. Street handling is critical and is the most difficult to refine. After many long days of test driving at high speed on test track, trails and black top the final version had changed in many small but important and unique areas to the “engineered” version of the computer. All the theories of suspension performance and handling are just theories, you have to put in a lot of seat time to tweak and refine a system to handle the way you expect. The flip kit and rear track bar bracket are results of the tweaking and they work really well on our 4-6” lifts.
When adjusting Roll Center the point is to position the Roll Axis in the position you want for the result you want. Sometimes that means adjusting the front up or down depending on what’s going on with the rear. Trying to match the front roll center with the rear would not give the results you hope.
My advice would be to fix the rear issue by adding a track bar bracket on the axle and then tell us what you experienced.
Good luck PeeJ Zip
I think it’s important to mention that when talking about roll centers you should not prejudice upward or downward movement with “good” or “bad” rather look at it as adjusting your roll center for the best performance.
When TeraFlex developed the 4” long Arm kits we now sell for the JK we designed it in a computer program using all of our experience at our disposal. We then build a few prototypes and go test them. We test them in every condition and terrain. Street handling is critical and is the most difficult to refine. After many long days of test driving at high speed on test track, trails and black top the final version had changed in many small but important and unique areas to the “engineered” version of the computer. All the theories of suspension performance and handling are just theories, you have to put in a lot of seat time to tweak and refine a system to handle the way you expect. The flip kit and rear track bar bracket are results of the tweaking and they work really well on our 4-6” lifts.
When adjusting Roll Center the point is to position the Roll Axis in the position you want for the result you want. Sometimes that means adjusting the front up or down depending on what’s going on with the rear. Trying to match the front roll center with the rear would not give the results you hope.
My advice would be to fix the rear issue by adding a track bar bracket on the axle and then tell us what you experienced.
Good luck PeeJ Zip
Last edited by Mssbbmia; 10-20-2009 at 03:21 PM.
10-20-2009, 05:47 PM
#24
JK Junkie
You create better roll center by RAISING the track bar mount on the axle side. not by DROPPING the mount on the frame side.
Lowering the trackbar mount create more body roll, take a look at AEV's solution, both front and rear.
Teraflex also offers a rear frame mounted trackbar bracket to address roll center.
http://www.teraflex.biz/products/jk-...inch-lift.html
Lowering the trackbar mount create more body roll, take a look at AEV's solution, both front and rear.
Teraflex also offers a rear frame mounted trackbar bracket to address roll center.
http://www.teraflex.biz/products/jk-...inch-lift.html
There is a lot of discussion around keeping the track bar, drag link and axle as close to parallel as possible, but I don't see much discussion about keep the first two close in length which is also a factor.
Nth Degree made their name in lift kits by paying detailed attention to geometry. I still have less than fond memories about installing one their kits on a friends's TJ a while back. It had so many brackets and parts to correct geometry, it was like a life size jigsaw puzzle. However, what I remember the most is much better it handled than my own TJ, so much so, that is why I put the AEV kit on my JK.
10-20-2009, 09:02 PM
#25
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I couldn’t really see a 4” lift offered by Rusty’s so I assume you have his 3.25” lift plus spring spacers. With this kit Rusty is using an adjustable rear track bar rather than a relocation bracket. Let me say here that adding a 1" spacer to a kit, any brand will effect the way it handles, usually in a negative way. If you have not installed a rear bracket yet I would recommend that you do. Because the rear track bar attaches to the frame on the right side and the axle on the left side you can be sure your rear “Tail wag” is impacting your bump steer condition. I know it sounds strange to change something on the rear when everything you’re focused on is in the front but it will be worth it.
Good luck PeeJ Zip
Good luck PeeJ Zip
10-21-2009, 07:18 AM
#27
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I am going to lift the track bar up, I kow it will solve the problem.
Lift height should not make a difference with this kit at all. They either move together or they do not, plain and simple. Mine, do not. However, it is possible that there is a sweet spot where the arcs cross and the bump steer would be minimized.
Wishful thinking, but it would be interesting to hear from an engineer, with solid axle geometry suspension experience, about how all of the components should work. Wonder if a Teraflex engineer could chime in with a post on the TF design intent and execution.
10-21-2009, 12:45 PM
#28
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I couldn’t really see a 4” lift offered by Rusty’s so I assume you have his 3.25” lift plus spring spacers. With this kit Rusty is using an adjustable rear track bar rather than a relocation bracket. Let me say here that adding a 1" spacer to a kit, any brand will effect the way it handles, usually in a negative way. If you have not installed a rear bracket yet I would recommend that you do. Because the rear track bar attaches to the frame on the right side and the axle on the left side you can be sure your rear “Tail wag” is impacting your bump steer condition. I know it sounds strange to change something on the rear when everything you’re focused on is in the front but it will be worth it.
I think it’s important to mention that when talking about roll centers you should not prejudice upward or downward movement with “good” or “bad” rather look at it as adjusting your roll center for the best performance.
When TeraFlex developed the 4” long Arm kits we now sell for the JK we designed it in a computer program using all of our experience at our disposal. We then build a few prototypes and go test them. We test them in every condition and terrain. Street handling is critical and is the most difficult to refine. After many long days of test driving at high speed on test track, trails and black top the final version had changed in many small but important and unique areas to the “engineered” version of the computer. All the theories of suspension performance and handling are just theories, you have to put in a lot of seat time to tweak and refine a system to handle the way you expect. The flip kit and rear track bar bracket are results of the tweaking and they work really well on our 4-6” lifts.
When adjusting Roll Center the point is to position the Roll Axis in the position you want for the result you want. Sometimes that means adjusting the front up or down depending on what’s going on with the rear. Trying to match the front roll center with the rear would not give the results you hope.
My advice would be to fix the rear issue by adding a track bar bracket on the axle and then tell us what you experienced.
Good luck PeeJ Zip
I think it’s important to mention that when talking about roll centers you should not prejudice upward or downward movement with “good” or “bad” rather look at it as adjusting your roll center for the best performance.
When TeraFlex developed the 4” long Arm kits we now sell for the JK we designed it in a computer program using all of our experience at our disposal. We then build a few prototypes and go test them. We test them in every condition and terrain. Street handling is critical and is the most difficult to refine. After many long days of test driving at high speed on test track, trails and black top the final version had changed in many small but important and unique areas to the “engineered” version of the computer. All the theories of suspension performance and handling are just theories, you have to put in a lot of seat time to tweak and refine a system to handle the way you expect. The flip kit and rear track bar bracket are results of the tweaking and they work really well on our 4-6” lifts.
When adjusting Roll Center the point is to position the Roll Axis in the position you want for the result you want. Sometimes that means adjusting the front up or down depending on what’s going on with the rear. Trying to match the front roll center with the rear would not give the results you hope.
My advice would be to fix the rear issue by adding a track bar bracket on the axle and then tell us what you experienced.
Good luck PeeJ Zip
From the website - "This draglink is designed to work with lifts over 4"."
You may be in that "gray".......I don't know. I'd think the spacer rather than the taller coil in there would also be suspect for ill, but that's just a guess....interested to see how this gets fixed.
Last edited by JUSTIN01; 10-21-2009 at 12:53 PM.
10-21-2009, 03:07 PM
#29
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mine's all TF. i'm still trying to track my problem. it's possibly in the TRE's, as the stockers feel loose compared to the TF unit i just put in. i was just hoping that the different angles of the tracbar and draglink without the high steer was my problem and the high steer kit would fix it. i would imagine that the high steer kits on the market should work with other brand lifts just as well as their own.
