Supercharger, Tuning Issues
10-29-2013, 07:53 AM
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Supercharger, Tuning Issues
I currently have 3 XJs, 2 of which are supercharged, 1 with sprintex kit and the other with Eaton DIY M62 kit. Both are running a Split Second box controlling a 7th injector with fuel thru the supercharger and boost timing retard and Meth(washer fluid) injection. I have no problems at all. Eaton kit runs 6-7pounds 211rwhp and sprintex runs 10pounds 250rwhp. Good AFR, IATs, mileage, smooth transition, etc.
I am interested in getting a JK, probably 2008 manual and I will want to supercharge it. I only want the JK if I can supercharge it.
I have read most of the supercharged threads on this site and seems that most are having issues with the tune, either HT or DS. All systems are using 6 larger injectors and ecu retune. CELs, poor idling, surging, poor mileage, etc seems to be the issues. Whether it is Ripp, Sprintex, Magnuson, Prodigy, Hesco they all use larger injectors and re-flach the ecu.
On my XJs with the 7th injector, the ecu stays stock as well as the stock 6 injectors and only under boost does the SS box come on and add the extra fuel. Out of boost, the XJs run just like stock, idle, mileage, etc.
My question is, on the JKs, when in boost do they go into 'open' loop?
and on the 3.8, I am sure they do, but do they have a Crank position sensor and a Cam position sensor?
A 'piggyback' box might be an answer, another way of doing it.
When not in boost, let the stock ecu and injectors run things and when in boost let a 'piggyback/standalone' control the extra fuel and boost timing retard.
When you do the same thing over and over again, like bigger injectors and reflash, retune, reflash, retune, reflash, and get the same results, what does that say? Maybe just need a different approach or a different box to think outside of.
I am interested in getting a JK, probably 2008 manual and I will want to supercharge it. I only want the JK if I can supercharge it.
I have read most of the supercharged threads on this site and seems that most are having issues with the tune, either HT or DS. All systems are using 6 larger injectors and ecu retune. CELs, poor idling, surging, poor mileage, etc seems to be the issues. Whether it is Ripp, Sprintex, Magnuson, Prodigy, Hesco they all use larger injectors and re-flach the ecu.
On my XJs with the 7th injector, the ecu stays stock as well as the stock 6 injectors and only under boost does the SS box come on and add the extra fuel. Out of boost, the XJs run just like stock, idle, mileage, etc.
My question is, on the JKs, when in boost do they go into 'open' loop?
and on the 3.8, I am sure they do, but do they have a Crank position sensor and a Cam position sensor?
A 'piggyback' box might be an answer, another way of doing it.
When not in boost, let the stock ecu and injectors run things and when in boost let a 'piggyback/standalone' control the extra fuel and boost timing retard.
When you do the same thing over and over again, like bigger injectors and reflash, retune, reflash, retune, reflash, and get the same results, what does that say? Maybe just need a different approach or a different box to think outside of.
Last edited by CobraMarty; 10-29-2013 at 07:56 AM.
10-29-2013, 08:15 AM
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Your tech questions are way beyond my little brain but I can tell you how I came to my decision to but RIPP's system and what my experience has been.
When I started looking to SC my 2010 2 door RIPP had come out with their V.2 system that included the intercooler. It seems that most of the SC company’s try coming out with a SC and no intercooler and then they follow up with an intercooler. My guess is this has to do with the cost to engineer the set up??
I installed my SC after loading tons of stuff, putting 35’s and regearing to 4.88 on an auto. I never had an issue with the low end torque of the Jeep. My issue was running the highway at 60 and wanting to pass or cruise at 75. The 3.8 just could not do that with everything I did to it even after the regear.
The only issue I have with mine is the surging. I understand from reading the posts that a lot of the SC’s seem to have this issue. For me the only time I have it is when I run the cruise control. Yes it is annoying but not to the point of me wanting to not have the SC.
If you run into any posts about issues with the 2011 I would ignore them. The 2011 Jeep was a hybrid year with the 3.8 engine but the newer fuel control system and has been a troublesome system from the get go.
Hope this helps
When I started looking to SC my 2010 2 door RIPP had come out with their V.2 system that included the intercooler. It seems that most of the SC company’s try coming out with a SC and no intercooler and then they follow up with an intercooler. My guess is this has to do with the cost to engineer the set up??
I installed my SC after loading tons of stuff, putting 35’s and regearing to 4.88 on an auto. I never had an issue with the low end torque of the Jeep. My issue was running the highway at 60 and wanting to pass or cruise at 75. The 3.8 just could not do that with everything I did to it even after the regear.
The only issue I have with mine is the surging. I understand from reading the posts that a lot of the SC’s seem to have this issue. For me the only time I have it is when I run the cruise control. Yes it is annoying but not to the point of me wanting to not have the SC.
If you run into any posts about issues with the 2011 I would ignore them. The 2011 Jeep was a hybrid year with the 3.8 engine but the newer fuel control system and has been a troublesome system from the get go.
Hope this helps
10-29-2013, 01:04 PM
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I can only address the RIPP supercharger, but, I have had mine supercharged for 2+ years and 37k miles. Yes, I have the surging issue with cruise. My understanding of the issue is that it is caused by the drive by wire throttle of the Jeep. It does not have an IAC valve to make small adjustments. The cruise control surges right at the point of boost/non-boost. It oscillates between the two giving the surging. It is expecting one thing and gets something else. If it is in solid boost or vacuum it does not surge. I believe that is not a part of the system the tuners can address.
I had one of the first Stage 2 RIPP systems. I started with their Version 1.0 tune and am now running their CARB certified 3.3 tune (Diablo tuner). It is rock solid. The only error code that I have ever thrown was a misfire due to bad plug wires. Boosting an engine will expose any weakness in the ignition system. Changed the plug wires and I have had no problems since. Yes the first tunes were a little rough(Still no codes though). As more and more Jeeps were added to their database they were able to improve them to the point of getting CARB certification.
I think the other supercharger manufacturers are going through the same thing and will get their tunes right also. Their systems have not been out quite as long. The tuners they are using are all the same and good at what they do.
A piggy back system will work just fine to provide the need fuel, but it cannot address the surging problem with the cruise control unless it can address the throttle body and drive by wire system.
I would do it again without a question.
Mike
I had one of the first Stage 2 RIPP systems. I started with their Version 1.0 tune and am now running their CARB certified 3.3 tune (Diablo tuner). It is rock solid. The only error code that I have ever thrown was a misfire due to bad plug wires. Boosting an engine will expose any weakness in the ignition system. Changed the plug wires and I have had no problems since. Yes the first tunes were a little rough(Still no codes though). As more and more Jeeps were added to their database they were able to improve them to the point of getting CARB certification.
I think the other supercharger manufacturers are going through the same thing and will get their tunes right also. Their systems have not been out quite as long. The tuners they are using are all the same and good at what they do.
A piggy back system will work just fine to provide the need fuel, but it cannot address the surging problem with the cruise control unless it can address the throttle body and drive by wire system.
I would do it again without a question.
Mike
10-29-2013, 05:13 PM
#5
ive had a RIPP supercharger on a few jks.. never any issues.. im running one now.. no check engine lights or issues.. runs great ! they do have a setup for the 2011 jks .. no piggy back system needed 
10-29-2013, 05:48 PM
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Mine is a 2011. Installed the RIPP myself, no issues at all so far. Live in So Cal and this year have driven it to and thru the Rubicon, and recently returned from Moab. Using their CARB tune and PROCAL for the gear setting and tire pressure setting. Ran it hard all the way to Moab and got 12-13 MPG doing 80 when I could and it would. Had a squeak in the rear driveline and drove back home never over 60 (long trip) and got 18.7MPG avg. Figure I saved around $70 in gas on the way home.
10-29-2013, 06:24 PM
#7
Mine is a 2011. Installed the RIPP myself, no issues at all so far. Live in So Cal and this year have driven it to and thru the Rubicon, and recently returned from Moab. Using their CARB tune and PROCAL for the gear setting and tire pressure setting. Ran it hard all the way to Moab and got 12-13 MPG doing 80 when I could and it would. Had a squeak in the rear driveline and drove back home never over 60 (long trip) and got 18.7MPG avg. Figure I saved around $70 in gas on the way home.
Im a pretty good daily driver so im impressed with the mpg improvements. The cost of 91 octane pretty much levels itself out. And of course the added power. Hows the noise? I heard they now have a silencer for the stg.2 kits.
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10-29-2013, 07:58 PM
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