Rough country
12-07-2013, 03:38 PM
#31
Forum Tech Advisor
Those who read through this thread will notice a predominant trend:
Too many of the people who have used RC here end up with parts that fail, need to be replaced, and or are eventually replaced or supplemented with superior parts.
In the end, all these people spent more money than they otherwise would have if they had just waited and bought higher quality parts.
I'd prefer to buy a product where I don't need customer service to replace sagging springs, blown shocks, failed bushings, or paying for inferior designs like drop pitman arms, non-adjustable control arms, rear radius long arms, etc.
I'd prefer to buy parts from a manufacturer where the people staffing their customer service dept actually own and drive jeeps and have personally installed their employer's products.
Buy cheap, pay twice. Buy quality, and it costs less in the long run.
Too many of the people who have used RC here end up with parts that fail, need to be replaced, and or are eventually replaced or supplemented with superior parts.
In the end, all these people spent more money than they otherwise would have if they had just waited and bought higher quality parts.
I'd prefer to buy a product where I don't need customer service to replace sagging springs, blown shocks, failed bushings, or paying for inferior designs like drop pitman arms, non-adjustable control arms, rear radius long arms, etc.
I'd prefer to buy parts from a manufacturer where the people staffing their customer service dept actually own and drive jeeps and have personally installed their employer's products.
Buy cheap, pay twice. Buy quality, and it costs less in the long run.
12-07-2013, 05:10 PM
#32
JK Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: West Richland Washington
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Those who read through this thread will notice a predominant trend:
Too many of the people who have used RC here end up with parts that fail, need to be replaced, and or are eventually replaced or supplemented with superior parts.
In the end, all these people spent more money than they otherwise would have if they had just waited and bought higher quality parts.
I'd prefer to buy a product where I don't need customer service to replace sagging springs, blown shocks, failed bushings, or paying for inferior designs like drop pitman arms, non-adjustable control arms, rear radius long arms, etc.
I'd prefer to buy parts from a manufacturer where the people staffing their customer service dept actually own and drive jeeps and have personally installed their employer's products.
Buy cheap, pay twice. Buy quality, and it costs less in the long run.
Too many of the people who have used RC here end up with parts that fail, need to be replaced, and or are eventually replaced or supplemented with superior parts.
In the end, all these people spent more money than they otherwise would have if they had just waited and bought higher quality parts.
I'd prefer to buy a product where I don't need customer service to replace sagging springs, blown shocks, failed bushings, or paying for inferior designs like drop pitman arms, non-adjustable control arms, rear radius long arms, etc.
I'd prefer to buy parts from a manufacturer where the people staffing their customer service dept actually own and drive jeeps and have personally installed their employer's products.
Buy cheap, pay twice. Buy quality, and it costs less in the long run.
12-07-2013, 08:14 PM
#33
Forum Tech Advisor
While I do agree with 99% of what you said I will say that my 3.5 series two has not let me down one bit this past year. I will eventually upgrade to a better kit but this has let me run 35" tires and get to places I could never have dreamed of while stock. Do these kits have quirks? Absolutely. But what "kit" doesn't?
If you had a 3"-3.5" kit with a front adjustable trackbar and adjustable front lower control arms, you wouldn't need to upgrade.
If RC would sell that kit with a good adjustable trackbar and front lower adjustable control arms that had good joints and bushings, it would only cost an extra few hundred dollars.
Not all lifts have quirks.
My criticism isn't of the customers. My criticism is of the philosophy of a company that knowing sells quirky and inferior designs to meet a price point with unsuspecting buyers.
They know that a drop pitman arm combined with a front trackbar bracket is a bad design.
They know that their 2.2 shocks are too stiff for lighter JKs and that they have a history of failing.
They know that the geometry of their long arm is terrible, but that it's less expensive to build it that way.
They know that a 6" short arm lift is a terrible idea.
They staff their call centers with people who read off a script--most of whom have never driven a jeep.
They wouldn't need to do much to significantly improve their offerings, but at a higher price point.
12-07-2013, 09:52 PM
#34
JK Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Your example is exactly my point.
If you had a 3"-3.5" kit with a front adjustable trackbar and adjustable front lower control arms, you wouldn't need to upgrade.
If RC would sell that kit with a good adjustable trackbar and front lower adjustable control arms that had good joints and bushings, it would only cost an extra few hundred dollars.
Not all lifts have quirks.
My criticism isn't of the customers. My criticism is of the philosophy of a company that knowing sells quirky and inferior designs to meet a price point with unsuspecting buyers.
They know that a drop pitman arm combined with a front trackbar bracket is a bad design.
They know that their 2.2 shocks are too stiff for lighter JKs and that they have a history of failing.
They know that the geometry of their long arm is terrible, but that it's less expensive to build it that way.
They know that a 6" short arm lift is a terrible idea.
They staff their call centers with people who read off a script--most of whom have never driven a jeep.
They wouldn't need to do much to significantly improve their offerings, but at a higher price point.
I know it cost more to buy and replace parts but I CAN buy a $450 dollar lift then a year later buy a couple hundred dollar trackbar then year or two later buy a set of control arms a lot easier than coming up with $2000 to start with. Just like the rubicon vs sport debate. Can you build a sport to be stronger and better yes. Can I afford a $6000 axle and a $1000 tcase right after I buy a sport nope. But I could spend an extra $100 month on a payment.
I say to those looking to get into a lift and not buy spacers and don't have or wanna put $1500-3000 on a card to give RC a look and do what I'm doing and slowly upgrade
Last edited by Tooadvanced; 12-08-2013 at 05:46 AM.
12-08-2013, 10:41 AM
#36
Forum Tech Advisor
I say this with the upmost respect but if you could show me a kit with an adjustable trackbar and control arms for $600-700 I will be all over that. That's couple hundred over what I paid for my kit. Most said kits you speak of run $1500-$3000 dollars. I am not trying to sound defensive of my purchase and am not endorsing RC lifts but they do serve a purpuse an entry level kit that isn't lift pucks. If I had more money would I run a different kit yes. Do I need to no.
I know it cost more to buy and replace parts but I CAN buy a $450 dollar lift then a year later buy a couple hundred dollar trackbar then year or two later buy a set of control arms a lot easier than coming up with $2000 to start with. Just like the rubicon vs sport debate. Can you build a sport to be stronger and better yes. Can I afford a $6000 axle and a $1000 tcase right after I buy a sport nope. But I could spend an extra $100 month on a payment.
I say to those looking to get into a lift and not buy spacers and don't have or wanna put $1500-3000 on a card to give RC a look and do what I'm doing and slowly upgrade
I know it cost more to buy and replace parts but I CAN buy a $450 dollar lift then a year later buy a couple hundred dollar trackbar then year or two later buy a set of control arms a lot easier than coming up with $2000 to start with. Just like the rubicon vs sport debate. Can you build a sport to be stronger and better yes. Can I afford a $6000 axle and a $1000 tcase right after I buy a sport nope. But I could spend an extra $100 month on a payment.
I say to those looking to get into a lift and not buy spacers and don't have or wanna put $1500-3000 on a card to give RC a look and do what I'm doing and slowly upgrade
They sell their front trackbar for $110. If they added a bend to it so that it would still clear the front differential cover while keeping minimal extended bumpstopping, it wouldn't cost that much more.
RC sells their front axle side trackbar bracket for $35 and their drop pitman arm for $53, for a total of $88.
If they weren't so set on a $499.95 price point for their 3.5" JK lift, they could lose the braket and pitman arm and add the front trackbar for $24 more, and they could lose the fixed front lower control arms and add front lower adjustable control arms with Johnny Joints for maybe $80 more--total $104 more on their 3.5" lift.
I'm not saying that the shocks still won't end up with blown seals and the springs still won't sag.
Their 4" lift, with front/rear cambolts, front trackbar bracket with drop pitman arm, no extended bumpstops, 2.2 shocks, etc., is almost as crazy as their 6" short arm lift (without extended bumpstops), or their long arm kits (without extended bumpstops, and with rear radius arms).