scottc

The BOV vents directly to atmosphere. I am guessing you are looking at recirculating in order to cut down on noise? I am willing to bet RIPP would mod the intake tube to allow for the recirculate option. However, since the the BOV is sitting right above the air filter and intake pipe for the blower, I am not sure how much of a noise reduction would actually be achieved? I am interested to see what RIPP has to say.

RIPPMODS

Yes, apparently the guys at MBRP have driven to shows together and they’ve mentioned a few times that the 2door with our supercharger beats the V8 four door out of the toll booth. We actually got a call from the driver of the 2 door once laughing in congratulations. We never posted it because we didn’t want to be the ones delivering the news – being the manufactures it would look like a dig at the V8 crowd.

We’ve also DYNO tuned 5.7l 1500 Series Dodge’s a found 225whp with exhaust and filter mods. They pick up about 20hp with tuning.

Actually this is surprisingly where we are working right now – we have several clients at altitude that have gone to dyno shops and tuned for elevation and found 50hp additional whp wrapped up in the tune over what we provided. What we estimated to be a correction for elevation was actually off…
So in working with reputable shops in Colorado, Wichita and Montana we came up with a solution that makes sense. Rather than using the switchable maps for High and Low octane, they are converting one of the two maps to High altitude and low altitude. Both the clients and tuners like the idea, and demonstrates the flexibility of the system.
A 6spd JK running 35’s and gears produced 190 rear wheel HP before tuning. With tuning they made 250 rear wheel (DYNO SHEET BELOW).

After consulting with these shops it became clear that aftermarket performance kit like ours almost always need to be fine tuned for elevation. By our calculations we thought the factory base mapping would swing the tune around enough to compensate - the dyno numbers prove that's theory wrong. If you are at altitude factor a quick tuning session in ($250-400) into the project. Please call our tech line for further advice.

Typically that’s the reaction of someone that's driven one – if you’re tuned into your JK you feel it the minute you drive a RIPP powered one - Accelerating onto the highway is a really big deal also, because you don't have to do quantum physics mixed with religion to calculate the speed and distance when merging. Driving on the highway is easier because your can better plan your passing points and find the needed acceleration EXACTLY WHEN need it. Without the blower your left with what you have and at times (more often than not) there’s not enough -go- to get you around your obstacle.

Nope – emails went un-replied – calls went un-returned. There are no dyno numbers on that product. There's no cats which we know ill drive the ECU crazy. Besides we’re making our own long tube based on the large amount of data we have both NA and boosted – our header program is held in high regard with the import crowd we support. In fact Import Tuner magazine recently tested our Mitsubishi long tube headers and found 28 rear Whp over stock without additional tuning.





Our JK units will follow the same principle, Stainless steel - long tube race collector. Primary size will be determined by HP/Trq output.

900cfm is a noticeable difference – 5cfm is not. At 2000 rpm your crusing in closed loop, the ECU is trimming fuel to conserve it and the throttle input is lazy. If you have to pass someone it like churning butter.
Yes –with the blower in place all the above it true – except there is a huge air pump ready to deliver if not boost just a whole bunch of air that your engine can take advantage of. You’ll still have to come out of torque converter lock up, and as soon as you do that the engine will rise to 2500-2700 in over drive and you’ll find 1-3psi there, or if the load (throttle input) is enough you'll, the ECU will ask for a down shift to 3rd gear and 4-5psi ready to be applied. You learn to use the blower as "displacement" per-say – Where you learn where the boost is and apply it as needed.

This is a very large blower – in fact on paper its quite over sized – we chose an oversized blower because its better suited for the lazy –narrow angle V6 – Yes, we take full advantage of the timing at low RPM –and no matter where your foot is, we tune on the outside of the tune –

frankie945 Your experience must be (albeit more conventional) with straight ECU tuning, larger injectors and fuel system. We are not that type of kit; we are deflective tuning and supplemental injector. This presents the added benefit of being able to take advantage of the blower’s willingness to deliver air – both boosted and in volume. Since we are monitoring the ECU via various sensory we have the ability to correct as much as 15% (-/+) according to the base line programming coming from the ECU. The variable being boost/vacuum. This allows the end user to drive the throttle differently. So if you’re at 2000 rpm and need some acceleration. Press the gas and we’ll be a great NA solution throwing timing forward and soaking up the JK's inherently rich tune and as it seamlessly transitions to boost just 200rpm later, we pull it back and feed fuel accordingly.

Once you add the blower – you can hear the blower load up and change sound to a loaded boosted state – Once boost is present you can apply it as needed 1-7psi and roll off the throttle like a larger displacement engine. It takes a little time to master, but it all makes sense when you feel it come together.

First please keep in mind we are testing the JK is (auto) third gear from 1800rpm on a load baring Braking eddy current dyno that creates a resistance according to the vehicle your testing. It even corrects for aerodynamic drag coefficency. So 1800rpm we’re moving a brick at 65mph 25lbs of torque and 10hp is going to move you a lot easier than not having it and just 700rpm later your making 50more HP and 70lbs/ft of torque. The rpm difference is the difference is just coming out of torque converter lock up and not a down shift.


That’s correct – the JK’s 3.8 aren’t very volumetrically efficient at lower RPM, meaning they do not move enough air through the engine to make power. They need at least 2200 to become volumetrically efficient. Centrifugal superchargers deliver boost at the engines minimum efficiency point which free's HP. This is the safest way to deliver HP in a car – any other mode can cost you internals.


That’s correct – most aren’t looking at the tach correctly – however this is a hefty investment and expectation should be set going in. Those interested should monitor their tach's while driving and see what the engine is doing to keep you moving. Then try to factor in the HP on the dyno graphs to see if it fits. You should find that at the RPM's you driving you will have a substantial amount of added HP, which makes living with a lifted JK much more appealing.

Our point is keeping the engine happy, you on the road and the extra HP to keep you truckin.

Correction 2014/15

[QUOTE=frankie945;1463418]Yes, we do we have several dyno sheets from shops outside of RIPP, here are two…

This was completed last month by Bullhide 4X4 in Colorado (one of or dealers), so this HP was found at altitude on a 6spd running 35” and 5.13’s through a stock exhaust. Also note that the torque is 266lbs/ft and not 416. The 416 is interference.


This is a fresh install not tuned on a automatic JK running 35’ and 3.73 gearing with proper gearing this will make 230 rear wheel HP (whp)

This was our test mule – at 5psi it was only making 214 with stock tires – this would now produce 240+whp
Our BOV is open to atmosphere – we point it directly at the fire wall to help clear the area of dust when you’re off road and move air under the hood. If you turn the BOV around and point it towards the fender its much quieter. It also blows a lot of under hood heat right out the side of the hood.
Recirc can be done – we never visited the topic.

TeraFlex

tpm152

I think something that would make me pull the trigger on the Ripp kit ASAP would be if it was possible to get significant boost (2 - 3 PSI) at 1800 RPM on up. Speaking as someone who knows engines, I am wondering what the feasibility would be for Ripp to have a bypass or blow-off valve at a preset pressure. This way you could get significant boost with the centrifugal SC at lower RPM (whether from a smaller pulley or larger blower unit) but also limit the boost in the upper portion of RPM (so the engine doesn't blow). I know it wouldn't be the "most efficient" thing as you would be pressurizing more air and then just venting a portion of it off, but this is my reasoning.

I spend 99% of my time at or below 3000 RPM. This means if the boost could be something like 1 - 2 PSI at 1500 RPM, 2 - 3 at 1800, 3 - 5 PSI in the 2000 RPM range, 6 - 9 in the 3000 RPM range and then with the 9 PSI blow-off just 9 PSI maximum (even if the SC is capable in that set-up to do 12 - 15 at red-line. This way we get a nice boost in torque at lower RPM than the current set-up but don't risk blowing the engine if it accidentally gets revved really high. Also being that I almost never hit 4 - 5K in its current state, I don't care if the system is horribly inefficient in that engine speed range

By the way cheers to Ripp for putting up with criticism and still answering questions the best they can

RIPPMODS

You can't put something pressing down on the engine that much all the time in and expect to get any sort of longevity from your engine....

We would rather a few less ponys and drive our rigs a long time - than have a more powerful broken one.

We specifically chose a centrifugal for that reason - Jeepers use there jeeps, and the ones that know how have less parts and go further. We couldn't in good faith worry about bottom end knock, when we know JK's go deep into the mountains and dessert for fun...

If your going to press down on the block like that you should build it and run a more powerful electronics system.

Lastly - the V3 Blower we chose can be spun much faster than its current configuration, however without the supporting mods we can't. Namely headers and cat set up that can take the heat. Thats why we are moving in that direction. Our plan was to put a substantial amount of kits out there to prove the reliability and approach - now we can start playing with more power.

RIPPTECH

SaharaBlackNo1

I know many like the idea of the roots style Avenger SC, but has anyone actually driven a JK with one? I think the Avenger kit looks great, and could be promising, but who's seen one in person or driven one? Nobody on ANY jk site has an Avenger SC and while some people "think" it may be superior that's only based on the fact that it's got a roots style sc, where's the proof? That's really not meant to be a rhetorical question either. Seriously, where's some data both from Avenger and from some people with the kit.

frankie945

Root style blowers belong on V8's IMO. And yes $5k for just 100 or so rwhp is kinda high. The blower it self is $2,300 new. But you have to pay the price if you want to go FI.

RIPPMODS

Well I guess speaking from our 18 years experience with small displacement forced induction systems our position is – been there - done that. Roots blowers are simply not as reliable on a whole and by nature only deliver 60-70% efficiency per pound of boost. Additionally they deliver air pulsations throughout the rpm band which act like jack hammers to the internals – no amount of tuning can fix that. These air pulsations also reek havoc to the MAP sensor relied upon by the factory ECU, needing more tuning, leaving it all in the hands of the programming unit. Lastly, because they deliver boost in a take it or leave it fashion, throttle modulation off road can become tricky. Confessed wrangler TJ owners (we also produce and support the 4.0 straight six wranglers) who have wheeled with roots blowers, said that when they were propped up against rocks with inches of their tire and needed to move is a controlled manor, they found it hard to modulate the throttle properly. And guys who liked to play in the mud holes said when they were powering threw the sticky muck, they could feel the power fall off in the upper RPM. Combine that with the added fuel consumption, lack of mid to upper power, ease of heat soak and in our professional performance tuning opinion, it’s not an ideal fit for Jeepers.

Conversely, centrifugal superchargers like the self contained V3 Si-Trim Vortech we use, build boost in direct relation to the natural air flow of the engine. This simply makes the engine feel larger in displacement throughout the entire RPM band and by default more efficient. Pair that to the way we fitted it completely on the outside of the factory system and there is little to no risk of you getting stuck in the middle of nowhere. So our message remains – our kit –as a whole - makes sense for the way a Jeeper uses there Jeep. Additionally your not limited in the future should you decide to build your engine up to run more boost.

With respect to methanol – we are not advocates of straight methanol/alcohol injection in this application… Pure Meth can and will corrode aluminum, if your looking for engine longevity (which most Jeepers are), this should directly impact their decision. Sprayed at the diluted levels we are using it, it evaporates before the chemical touches any metal – this delivers both air density and added octane with little risk. But it’s not a 100% necessity and if it’s not present it will only cost you a few HP and not risk knock. When we were in testing stages running in a continuous state for 10mins on our eddy current loaded dyno – we measured air temps at the intake as high as 180-200 degree’s. The meth brought it down a peak of 100 degrees and a minimum of 50. It did suppress knock and provide cooling at any speed and RPM giving us the ability to run in ignition advance and thus more efficiently. A point we want to make abundantly clear is a roots is known around our industry as the hottest type of supercharging available. Air temps can idle higher than our operating temps. Yes, you can run a sandwiched intercooler in-between the blower and the cylinder head, but you’re still relying on the heat dissipation of the front mounted heat exchanger, a pump that can fail and hose throughout that can be cut of ripped off. This leads to running your tune a bit on the rich side to bring cylinder and Exhaust Gas Temps (EGT) down, prompting waste. If you’re wheeling at 5-10mph and are looking for efficiency in all aspects, you’re not going to find it in a roots or its supporting components.

Your welcome to feel frustrated – and even upset – for the investment you have the right to feel anyway you want. You don’t need us to tell you that you should only invest in what you’re convinced is the right thing for you. But don’t under estimate our system – its not an over inflated bunch of components in a box. We use high quality components throughout. For example we use stainless steel idlers and hardware, powder and black oxide coat all bare metal, SKF precision bearing in all rotating assemblies, and check for shaft concentricity down to the .001. Combine that with a turn key system and a network of skilled ready, willing and able dealers around the world, a customer service department that never leaves you feeling alone in your investment, and the few supporting mods we have coming out for 2010 to make more power– and that’s what your spending money on at RIPP!

Your argument is legitimate – but it's one from one perspective – a roots will deliver from 1800-2500 – We feel we deliver the whole package.

Thanks for the perspective,
RIPPTECH

AzBob

Thanks to Rippmodds for all your replies and clarifications.

I have been following all supercharger threads with great interest. So far, the info I am gleening from these threads is supporting my plan to pull the trigger on the Ripp SC next spring.

awdspider

i agree, major prop to ripp. these guys are always on here to answer our questions and they are always polite and respectful. good job guys.

like i said before, when i get the money tis will be the route im going. i am really anxious to here about your long tubes. will you do test on a stock jeep so we can see what we are getting before the supercharger.


shaun h