dmalpas

I read your comprehensive write up on suspension again. I must admit a lot of the details of suspension leaves me bewildered. I suppose it is only understood it by doing it. Track bars, drag links, etc are just beyond me.

Sixty4x4

Whatever you think the budget is you can double it. Then you will always be within budget at the end. Just my ...

resharp001

If you look at the front end of your jeep, you'll see a sector shaft that comes down and out of your steering box. attached to that is a pitman arm, which attaches to the drag link, which attaches to the passenger side knuckle. the passenger side knuckle is tied to the driver's side with the tie rod. That is how the wheels turn a direction when you turn the steering wheel back and forth. The track bar is there to tie the axle to the frame. Without the track bar, the force applied through the drag link to the knuckle (which would normally turn the wheel) would simply shift the body of the jeep over the axle. You can see this with your own eyes in the garage if you remove the TB axle side bolt, start the jeep and turn the steering wheel. You'll observe the body just shifts back and forth over the axle. That's pretty much how your steering system works. Pretty simple really. Course, that doesn't include how the knuckle is linked to the axle's Cs via the ball joints, and that is how they rotate back and forth. Those BJs are pretty important on your JK as they are a common failure and lead to wobbles.

You may from time to time see "hydro-assist" steering mentioned on more modified jeeps. That keeps the traditional steering system in place which I just explained, but, uses a ram which links the tie rod to the axle (think just how your steering stabilizer is mounted to the axle and the tie rod). Power steering fluid is sent from a modified steering box through hoses that run to that ram cylinder. The PS fluid will push the piston in the cylinder back and forth (depending on direction the steering wheel is turned), and that force is transferred to the tie rod which in turn "assists" in turning the wheels, relieving stress from the steering box (and gears within) and sector shaft (think of 1 person lifting a heavy object by themself vs. two people lifting the same object together....which is easier?). You'll see this mainly with larger tires and people that do technical type wheeling.

TheDirtman referenced that full hydro steering set up removes the binding from the DL and TB (adding treating articulation). If you look at that picture you'll notice there is no drag link or TB like you have on your jeep. Two less things that limit the front axle's articulation.

Anyhow, that is a full trail rig/buggy in the picture. As mentioned above, there's very little of the original jeep there besides the frame and some of the body. It's hard to compare that to your JK, or about any other of our JKs on here cept TheDirtman's.

I'm sure someone else could be a bit more eloquent explaining the steering above, but that's the quick and dirty version.

dmalpas

Thank you for the explanation. I am going to save it, because I know I will forget it. Sure wish I had a lift at home so I could see how it all works.
And hey, if you want to move to hot and steamy Alabama, there are several homes for sale close to me. Grin

dmalpas

Please indulge me a little more. I now understand that there is no way to install long ORI struts or coil-overs without other mods like long control arms.
I am not going there. I don't need a buggy, (but it would be fun)
I am 75 and who knows how many more years I will be able to off-road.
The 3-inch lift and 35's give me all the clearance I need.
The attraction of the struts for me was to level the body when crossing off-camber trail sections.
Would short struts or coil-overs without other mods level me up some?
The Jeep must remain a driver.
Thanks for your opinion.

TheDirtman

No, not really. ORI struts do not self level you in fact they require the weight of the tire to pull them down. You will typically see a rig with ORI struts parked and it will be leaning to one side of the other. They cost about $1000 each with a standard reservoir. Long control arms are not going to give you any more articulation than short arms. That kind of flex comes from the shock travel period. The reason that rig is level in the photo is the rear driver wheel is in a hole.

You can try removing the sway bar links, they will help a little on keeping the jeep more level on small trials but you are better with them hooked up on more extreme wheeling. Another thing is adding width the the wheels. The wider the stance the more stable you will be. Just a couple inches makes a big difference on that off camber stuff.

dmalpas

Thank you. I should have started earlier in life and built one like yours. A total waste on my side of the country, but just right for the western states.

barongan

totally agree

Sixty4x4

To the OP - just asking but ... what is your intention for the Jeep? I know you said you want it level as possible offroad. Is yours a Rubicon? If so deactivate the sway bar in ECM, sell the swaybar unit and install a Currie antirock system front and rear. They are designed to stay connected for wheeling. Dual rate springs can flex a little more than standard units, also some higher end (and more costly) control arms flex easier, or should I say flex further, than others. Are you sure your shocks are not restricting down travel? 3" lift requires longer travel shocks than stock ones. Sounds like you are happy with your present lift height. One last point that helps off camber is to keep junk off the roof as that makes the vehicle tippy EG a roof tent or similar. Just throwing some ideas at you.
I have a 3" lift from Metalcloak and can do a lot of the trails at MacLean Creek offroad area near Calgary, Alberta without too much drama. Look it up on Youtube for what the terrain is about. Not extreme crawling though. Hope this helps with future decisions you make.

BoraBora

If you're looking for a more stable ride off-road: you need proper suspension geometry paired with lots of travel, and as Dirtman stated: a wider stance. Anti-squat, raised roll centers, and some long arms will improve your ride on and off-road.

I am personally not a fan of Currie anti-rocks or torsion bars. Yes you'll flex a lot, but you're still going to limit some of that travel. People will argue for days about usable travel and blah blah. Torsion bars are expensive, and are better suited for a go-fast rig that also needs to crawl sections of trail. I like to use every inch of travel personally, so I disconnect.