My thoughts on lifts
10-27-2013, 03:50 PM
#61
JK Jedi
Thread Starter
The bigger, wider tires are exactly why your jeep handles better both on road an off. That is the exact point that I was making, tires are the the biggest key to performance when looking at upgrades on the JK. Throw those same 35's on a stock suspension with trimmed fenders and everything I said would still be true.
I wish you would quit quoting me and then go off the rail with information that does not pertain to my quote. You just add confusion to those that are trying to learn and are not helping at all.
I wish you would quit quoting me and then go off the rail with information that does not pertain to my quote. You just add confusion to those that are trying to learn and are not helping at all.
10-28-2013, 10:18 AM
#63
Super Moderator
Reference below, " 1.25" front and 2.5" rear extended bumpstops "... does this mean bumpstops that are 1.25" and 2.5" longer than the OEM front and rear bumpstops respectively?
I'm very glad to have found this thread. I currently run a 2.5" lift actually do use my rubicon for rock crawling. I'm on 33" tires now and wanted to move to 37". I had expectations that I would need at least a 3.5" lift to get this accomplished. I didn't care for that idea because some of the points brought up in this thread. Dirtman's guidance combined with your input (Planman) is what I think I'm really looking for. A vehicle that is running a tire that gives me what I need when crawling and yet retains some manners when on the road. I don't drive it everyday (mostly a motorcycle guy) but often enough that I can't sacrifice too much of the road manners.
I'm currently running an RK 2.5" X-Factor so I think the below would work out in my favor.
Thanks!
I'm very glad to have found this thread. I currently run a 2.5" lift actually do use my rubicon for rock crawling. I'm on 33" tires now and wanted to move to 37". I had expectations that I would need at least a 3.5" lift to get this accomplished. I didn't care for that idea because some of the points brought up in this thread. Dirtman's guidance combined with your input (Planman) is what I think I'm really looking for. A vehicle that is running a tire that gives me what I need when crawling and yet retains some manners when on the road. I don't drive it everyday (mostly a motorcycle guy) but often enough that I can't sacrifice too much of the road manners.
I'm currently running an RK 2.5" X-Factor so I think the below would work out in my favor.
Thanks!
Dirtman has some really good info here.
I'd contribute an example:
With flat flares and minimal trimming of the rear fender well pinch seam, 35" tires can be run on 4.5" or less backspaced wheels with stock front bumpstops and about 2" rear extended bumpstops. So, you could run shocks that measure up to about 15" collapsed in the front and about 17.5" collapsed in the rear without bottoming them out. To gain more than stock articulation (flex), you'd run as long a shock as your springs would permit, as long as the collapsed length of the shock was at or less than the 15"/17.5".
With the same flat flares and rear pinch seam trimming, 37" tires can be run with 1.25" front and 2.5" rear extended bumpstops.
So, as an example for someone wanting more articulation (flex) with a mild lift of 2.5"-3":
You can run OME 11.5" travel shocks (16" collapsed and 27.5" extended) with 1.25" front extended bumpstops and longer front brakelines--and longer front swaybar links if you run them off road with a Rubi disconnect system.
You can run EVO RockStar (or similar) rear skids/shock relocation brackets that raise the rear lower shock and swaybar link mounting points about 1.5" with 11.5" travel OME shocks (16.5" collapsed and 28" extended), 2.5" rear extended bumpstops, longer brakelines, and longer swaybar links.
With this setup, you would need springs that can handle 11.5" travel without unseating. The rear coils would need lower coil retainers. OME HD springs can handle it. Metalcloak and Rock Krawler 2.5" springs should be able to handle it.
With 11.5" travel at the shock, you will want a flex joint (spherical joint) at atleast one end of at least the lower control arms. The front axle side upper control arm bushings in the axle will last longer if the front upper arms have a joint at the frame side instead of a bushing.
That setup, with appropriate adjustable trackbars, will RTI 1000 on a 2 dr JK with close to stock wheelbase.
The setup significantly increases articulation (flex) over stock because the combination of shock lengths and rear mounting points, extended bumpstops, longer brakelines, longer swaybar links, longer uncompressed spring lengths, etc. allows the full use of 11.5" travel shocks.
I haven't ever measured the actual usable shock travel with the stock setup, but I would be surprised if more than 7"-8" shock travel is useable.
I'd contribute an example:
With flat flares and minimal trimming of the rear fender well pinch seam, 35" tires can be run on 4.5" or less backspaced wheels with stock front bumpstops and about 2" rear extended bumpstops. So, you could run shocks that measure up to about 15" collapsed in the front and about 17.5" collapsed in the rear without bottoming them out. To gain more than stock articulation (flex), you'd run as long a shock as your springs would permit, as long as the collapsed length of the shock was at or less than the 15"/17.5".
With the same flat flares and rear pinch seam trimming, 37" tires can be run with 1.25" front and 2.5" rear extended bumpstops.
So, as an example for someone wanting more articulation (flex) with a mild lift of 2.5"-3":
You can run OME 11.5" travel shocks (16" collapsed and 27.5" extended) with 1.25" front extended bumpstops and longer front brakelines--and longer front swaybar links if you run them off road with a Rubi disconnect system.
You can run EVO RockStar (or similar) rear skids/shock relocation brackets that raise the rear lower shock and swaybar link mounting points about 1.5" with 11.5" travel OME shocks (16.5" collapsed and 28" extended), 2.5" rear extended bumpstops, longer brakelines, and longer swaybar links.
With this setup, you would need springs that can handle 11.5" travel without unseating. The rear coils would need lower coil retainers. OME HD springs can handle it. Metalcloak and Rock Krawler 2.5" springs should be able to handle it.
With 11.5" travel at the shock, you will want a flex joint (spherical joint) at atleast one end of at least the lower control arms. The front axle side upper control arm bushings in the axle will last longer if the front upper arms have a joint at the frame side instead of a bushing.
That setup, with appropriate adjustable trackbars, will RTI 1000 on a 2 dr JK with close to stock wheelbase.
The setup significantly increases articulation (flex) over stock because the combination of shock lengths and rear mounting points, extended bumpstops, longer brakelines, longer swaybar links, longer uncompressed spring lengths, etc. allows the full use of 11.5" travel shocks.
I haven't ever measured the actual usable shock travel with the stock setup, but I would be surprised if more than 7"-8" shock travel is useable.
10-28-2013, 12:52 PM
#65
Forum Tech Advisor
Yes. However, instead if lengthening the upper bumpstops, the preferred method is to add to the lower coil perch pads in the front and rear lower bumpstop pads in the back.
10-28-2013, 01:28 PM
#66
Super Moderator
10-28-2013, 06:58 PM
#69
JK Jedi
Thread Starter
You are going to get the most out of a long arm at larger lift heights, but that is not to say you can't do a lot with the geometry on a custom long arm at just 2" of height.
I have not got around to doing a thread on steering yet. Sorry.
I have not got around to doing a thread on steering yet. Sorry.
10-29-2013, 06:03 AM
#70
