Metalcloak Thread
12-21-2013, 01:48 AM
#702
Originally Posted by GJeep
....."track bar .... there is not a better method to do those things".
Well... how about double triangulated 4 Link? -- better than the arms and track bar together.
I presume you have never driven a Jeep with CRC Link, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure that "track bar .... there is not a better method to do those things".
No matter what you do with the track bar, the axle keeps moving sideways.
For the vast majority, double triangulated 4 Link is too much of an overkill.
With the CRC Link, the roll center is constant, the sideways movement is zero.
....."track bar .... there is not a better method to do those things".
Well... how about double triangulated 4 Link? -- better than the arms and track bar together.
I presume you have never driven a Jeep with CRC Link, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure that "track bar .... there is not a better method to do those things".
No matter what you do with the track bar, the axle keeps moving sideways.
For the vast majority, double triangulated 4 Link is too much of an overkill.
With the CRC Link, the roll center is constant, the sideways movement is zero.
Those who installed the CRC Link praise it, no complaints or regrets so far - including a 4x4 shop owner who has it on his own thoroughly modded Jeep.
I have my own personal vendetta's against FT that I'm leaving out of this opinion
As I don't see in your reply that you had actually driven a Jeep with the CRC Link, your opinion is theoretical in the best case or biased in the worst case.
People are quick to spread criticism on the internet. I've just searched and didn't find complaints.
The length of the rear trackbar especially is long enough that when set flat or close to flat the axle will "shift" laterally by fractions of an inch on common bumps in the road. This is not something the driver will notice.
The CRC Link connection is not only raised, but is connected to the center of the axle and both sides of the frame. This makes a very clearly felt difference.
I feel it, and so do others I know in person, and so do forum members who gave feedback.
There's no room for "I paid for it so it must be good" self deception, because the improvement is prominent and very clearly felt, both on & off road.
Last edited by GJeep; 12-21-2013 at 02:14 AM.
12-21-2013, 06:50 AM
#703
JK Jedi
This is a metal cloak thread not a Full Traction CRC link thread. You should start one on the CRC so you can praise it everyday and people can have a meaningful discussion on it.
12-21-2013, 08:08 AM
#704
2. This issue is relevant to the discussion about the rear trackbar. Besides, posts which open more options are widespread all over the forum.
3. "so you can praise it everyday" -- that's an erroneous nasty innuendo, which is funny in view of the fact that someone else tied himself very emotionally to the issue. by saying - "I have my own personal vendetta's against FT"...
4. Trying to silence people who's posts you don't like or don't agree with, is plain arrogance.
Last edited by GJeep; 12-21-2013 at 08:13 AM.
12-21-2013, 08:40 AM
#705
JK Jedi
You constantly jump into threads and rave about the CRC link when no one else has mentioned it or cares to spend $600+ on a track bar replacement. You go on and on with the hijack and make the thread about you and disregard any other info posted by anyone else if they have not run the CRC link. You are nothing more then a full traction fanboy trying to justify overspending on a lift by telling everyone how much better your set up is then everyone else's.
You never seem to mention that you need to run 4"+ of lift with this system due to the loss of clearance having the system mounted above the axle. Exhaust modifications are required to run the CRC link. You cannot run a 3 link rear suspension with this set up. You gain 3 extra wear points and more weight with the CRC system. This design also will limit the amount of suspension travel you can get out of because of the design. Just how much droop can you get out of the system before it binds up? Can you answer that simple question?
Full traction boasts more ground clearance from the CRC due to the fact it is above the axle but the factory track bar mounts above the bottom of the axle so how do you gain ground clearance?
Full traction states it adds strength the the rear axle, if it actually does (which I doubt) it would be negligible being a design that uses u bolts for mounting so close to where the tubes enter the differential housing.
At 4"+ of lift height I can see where you would see an improvement over the stock track bar at the factory location on the road, but not enough to notice a difference in a properly set up raised track bar and bracket on the axle side. On the road would not have enough suspension travel to create enough axle shift to notice. While it might be a good set up for you on your rig it is not even applicable on the MC lifts at 2.5" and 3.5" lift heights especially when paired with the 6 pack shocks that allow for maximum up travel.
I have never run the CRC link so I must be full of shit on the issue of suspension geometry and design. I would expect you to comment on other things and call me a hater because I don't agree with you. I would also expect you to change the subject to something else which you typically do when someone shows you the limitations of your precious Full traction lift and your CRC link.
I hope this post brings light to all the people looking at Metal Cloak lifts that the CRC link would not be recommended for that lift and put this issue to rest.
You never seem to mention that you need to run 4"+ of lift with this system due to the loss of clearance having the system mounted above the axle. Exhaust modifications are required to run the CRC link. You cannot run a 3 link rear suspension with this set up. You gain 3 extra wear points and more weight with the CRC system. This design also will limit the amount of suspension travel you can get out of because of the design. Just how much droop can you get out of the system before it binds up? Can you answer that simple question?
Full traction boasts more ground clearance from the CRC due to the fact it is above the axle but the factory track bar mounts above the bottom of the axle so how do you gain ground clearance?
Full traction states it adds strength the the rear axle, if it actually does (which I doubt) it would be negligible being a design that uses u bolts for mounting so close to where the tubes enter the differential housing.
At 4"+ of lift height I can see where you would see an improvement over the stock track bar at the factory location on the road, but not enough to notice a difference in a properly set up raised track bar and bracket on the axle side. On the road would not have enough suspension travel to create enough axle shift to notice. While it might be a good set up for you on your rig it is not even applicable on the MC lifts at 2.5" and 3.5" lift heights especially when paired with the 6 pack shocks that allow for maximum up travel.
I have never run the CRC link so I must be full of shit on the issue of suspension geometry and design. I would expect you to comment on other things and call me a hater because I don't agree with you. I would also expect you to change the subject to something else which you typically do when someone shows you the limitations of your precious Full traction lift and your CRC link.
I hope this post brings light to all the people looking at Metal Cloak lifts that the CRC link would not be recommended for that lift and put this issue to rest.
Last edited by TheDirtman; 12-21-2013 at 08:44 AM.
12-21-2013, 09:59 AM
#706
You are nothing more then a full traction fanboy trying to justify overspending on a lift by telling everyone how much better your set up is then everyone else's.
I'm not going to be dragged into an exchange with THAT attitude and type of phrasing.
I keep off arguing with people who show narrow mindedness, or who are sure they "know" what's on the other guys' mind, based on shallow interpretation of some words on the internet.
So, just this:
I mentioned the CRC Link as a very interesting option which cancels some rear trackbar deficiencies.
Like everything else, it would suit some, not necessarily everyone. That's why a wealth of options are available.
The rest of your post is digging for deficiencies, and includes some misleading "information" re' the CRC Link, but, as I said, I'm not going to be dragged down to that level of tone or attitude.
Calm down.
Last edited by GJeep; 12-21-2013 at 10:31 AM.
12-21-2013, 10:34 AM
#707
JK Jedi
Change the subject, call me a hater, and provide no rebuttal. Just as expected.
Please explain what is misleading from my post? Lift height is from the Full traction web site. Show me how it strengthens the axle. Show me how it gains ground clearance over a stock set up. Are there not 3 more wear points on the CRC vs a conventional track bar set up? Show me how it does not limit up travel as well as droop. Show me how much the axle shifts side to side on the road and how you can feel the difference when the front is still shifting due to the front track bar.
You can't answer these questions but rave about the CRC. You say I am misleading, but give no examples of how and don't want get into that discussion because you are the better person? I am perfectly calm and just giving people the accurate information about that product.
You go a little farther then just suggesting the CRC link is interesting option and drag it on to several posts, it may cancel some minor track bar deficiencies but you seem perfectly fine to ignore the other issues it creates.
A dedicated thread to the CRC link will give people that may be interested in it with any lift to look into it and will get the whole story out there on what kind of set ups it would be good for instead of having the discussion in the middle of a brand specific thread.
Please explain what is misleading from my post? Lift height is from the Full traction web site. Show me how it strengthens the axle. Show me how it gains ground clearance over a stock set up. Are there not 3 more wear points on the CRC vs a conventional track bar set up? Show me how it does not limit up travel as well as droop. Show me how much the axle shifts side to side on the road and how you can feel the difference when the front is still shifting due to the front track bar.
You can't answer these questions but rave about the CRC. You say I am misleading, but give no examples of how and don't want get into that discussion because you are the better person? I am perfectly calm and just giving people the accurate information about that product.
You go a little farther then just suggesting the CRC link is interesting option and drag it on to several posts, it may cancel some minor track bar deficiencies but you seem perfectly fine to ignore the other issues it creates.
A dedicated thread to the CRC link will give people that may be interested in it with any lift to look into it and will get the whole story out there on what kind of set ups it would be good for instead of having the discussion in the middle of a brand specific thread.
12-21-2013, 10:47 AM
#708
JK Jedi
After a quick search you can run a shock up to 31" extended length with the CRC link set up before it binds. You can run most 12" travel shocks and a few of the long travel 14" I would be curious to see how much actual travel you can get out of the suspension due to the extended bump stops you need to run with it.
12-21-2013, 11:16 AM
#709
I changed the subject?! I replied, briefly though, and not to everything.
You pick on a typo, should be differential cover, not axle.
Don't expect any more than that when addressing me with this kind of continued verbal aggression.
You would have received elaborated answers if you adopted a better attitude in the first place.
About "Change the subject"... Didn't you say that this is a Metal Cloak thread and not about the CRC?...
On another opportunity, try a different approach if you want full answers.
Avoid personal attacks and talk to the point. Now - forget it.
.....explain what is misleading from my post? Lift height is from the Full traction web site. Show me how it strengthens the axle.
Don't expect any more than that when addressing me with this kind of continued verbal aggression.
You can't answer these questions but rave about the CRC.
About "Change the subject"... Didn't you say that this is a Metal Cloak thread and not about the CRC?...
On another opportunity, try a different approach if you want full answers.
Avoid personal attacks and talk to the point. Now - forget it.
Last edited by GJeep; 12-21-2013 at 11:22 AM.
12-21-2013, 11:35 AM
#710
JK Jedi
I changed the subject?! I replied, briefly though, and not to everything.
You pick on a typo, should be differential cover, not axle.
Don't expect any more than that when addressing me with this kind of continued verbal aggression.
You would have received elaborated answers if you adopted a better attitude in the first place.
About "Change the subject"... Didn't you say that this is a Metal Cloak thread and not about the CRC?...
On another opportunity, try a different approach if you want full answers. Avoid personal attacks and talk to the point. Now - forget it.
You pick on a typo, should be differential cover, not axle.
Don't expect any more than that when addressing me with this kind of continued verbal aggression.
You would have received elaborated answers if you adopted a better attitude in the first place.
About "Change the subject"... Didn't you say that this is a Metal Cloak thread and not about the CRC?...
On another opportunity, try a different approach if you want full answers. Avoid personal attacks and talk to the point. Now - forget it.
As to your point of the CRC link keeping your axle centered : the sideways movement is zero.: is only true if the whole axle is moving up and down, you still get axle shift if one wheel is up and the other wheel down. Only the top of the axle above the differential where the two rods mount will stay centered.
I did say this was a MC thread but you said it was ok to post here since there is a discussion on track bars, or did I miss something? I am responding to what you have said about the CRC link as an interesting alternative to using a track bar. I did find a CRC link thread on this very forum and noticed you have not posted on it. You might want to give it a look since it only has two posts since it was started.
After watching some of the full traction videos it appears that the system needs quite a bit of bump stops and the shocks they run in the video has about two inches of unused travel (stuff) while constantly banging the bump stops and exhaust on what looks like a pretty mild run. I would guess from the video that the up travel is 2"-3" at most.