Metalcloak Thread
12-14-2013, 09:10 AM
#681
JK Freak
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: El Dorado County, CA
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Ok, so I am running the Overland flares and 35's and planning on installing their middle of the road 2.5" lift (springs, OME shocks, front LCA's, front track bar and rear track bar mount) are you all saying that the factory stock track bar will be an issue? I thought the rear bracket was so you COULD use the stock track bar?? Learning a lot on this thread, but confused by a lot. Seems a lot of you don't run any MC but have a lot to say about it. 35's fit fine with their fenders btw, but up travel would be limited and so I will be adding the 2.5 and eventually buying the rest of the CA's.
12-14-2013, 09:35 AM
#682
JK Jedi
Assuming the lower control arms are fairly parallel (not triangulated), the roll center height is defined by the upper links at the axle. On a setup using a track bar, the roll center height is defined by the track bar's location at the axle. Whatever has a higher roll center height in relation to the COG height will theoretically corner better, given all else is the same. That's just basic suspension geometry.
When it comes to what I would actually prefer, I'm not a Watts link fan, nor do I have high regards for Full Traction. Track bars get a bad rap due to fancy marketing by many of the offroad companies but in actuality, a track bar is the most efficient method for managing lateral loads and for defining the roll center height. There is not a better method to do those things. Mounting the track bar level at ride height and as high as possible maximizes the benefits of such a setup. Metalcloak is doing it all right.
When it comes to what I would actually prefer, I'm not a Watts link fan, nor do I have high regards for Full Traction. Track bars get a bad rap due to fancy marketing by many of the offroad companies but in actuality, a track bar is the most efficient method for managing lateral loads and for defining the roll center height. There is not a better method to do those things. Mounting the track bar level at ride height and as high as possible maximizes the benefits of such a setup. Metalcloak is doing it all right.
12-14-2013, 09:57 AM
#684
Well... how about double triangulated 4 Link? -- better than the arms and track bar together.
I presume you have never driven a Jeep with CRC Link, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure that "track bar .... there is not a better method to do those things".
No matter what you do with the track bar, the axle keeps moving sideways.
For the vast majority, double triangulated 4 Link is too much of an overkill.
With the CRC Link, the roll center is constant, the sideways movement is zero.
Last edited by GJeep; 12-15-2013 at 01:53 AM.
12-14-2013, 09:59 AM
#685
JK Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Perhaps they have a good reason for running different roll center heights. Just because they don't have a "kit" to raise the track bar and drag link (obviously they must go up by the same amount) doesn't mean it's wrong or right. If you want to do that, there are already existing kits to help you do it. Generally speaking, no it wouldn't be a bad idea. As long as you address the clearance/up travel issues of moving the track bar and drag link up then there really are no disadvantages to having a flatter operating angle and higher roll center.
12-14-2013, 11:22 AM
#686
JK Enthusiast
This where I'm coming from. I dont claim to be an expert in suspension by any means but I know a lot of engineering went into this kit to make it do what they wanted it to do. Thats different than taking a cookie cutter approach to each individual part and its different than offering cookie cutter parts that can be thrown on any suspension. Each part they designed was designed to compliment every other part they designed and play off its strengths and weaknesses to end up with the final correct solution for what they wanted as a final product. Of course the final product may not be acceptable to everyone for every application but those that run it, love it and in the end thats all that counts about anything we purchase.
12-15-2013, 06:48 AM
#687
JK Junkie
I just want to thank all the experts that have posted such helpful information on this forum. I just got back from the alignment shop and everything was perfect....axles with 1/16th" of each other, caster at 4*. I had a tiny wobble just before coming to a complete stop and was worried but it just turned out to be the toe-in was a hair off. I didn't try to adjust that because I had read that toe-in is not affected with the new JK suspension design. I couldn't have done it by myself for the first time without such excellent guidance from the very knowledgeable members who have posted here. You know who you are. Again, thank you so much.
12-15-2013, 06:53 AM
#688
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2012
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I just want to thank all the experts that have posted such helpful information on this forum. I just got back from the alignment shop and everything was perfect....axles with 1/16th" of each other, caster at 4*. I had a tiny wobble just before coming to a complete stop and was worried but it just turned out to be the toe-in was a hair off. I didn't try to adjust that because I had read that toe-in is not affected with the new JK suspension design. I couldn't have done it by myself for the first time without such excellent guidance from the very knowledgeable members who have posted here. You know who you are. Again, thank you so much.
12-15-2013, 07:29 AM
#689
JK Super Freak
I know this thread has been more specific to the suspension/lift kits but I figured I would share this too. I had a few issues with my metalcloak overland fenders which I posted about earlier in this thread and I was contacted by Matson of Metalcloak after he saw it here. I shared some info and a few pics of my issue with them so that maybe they could improve the product. Well fast forward six weeks later and now my fenders are already showing rust. I paid alot extra to have Metalcloak powdercoat these to hopefully slow down the rust from setting in. I have other products from other companies that have survived three new england winters with no rust problems at all. I am disappointed given that these front fenders were close to $800.00 with shipping and powdercoat. Come on 6 weeks? I have the rears on order with Northridge and hope these things hold up. All in $1300
between front and rear so it's a bit concerning being in the Northeast with all the road salt used here. Especially when this happened almost immediately after our first road salting. Why have my other powdercoated products held up in the same evironment?
between front and rear so it's a bit concerning being in the Northeast with all the road salt used here. Especially when this happened almost immediately after our first road salting. Why have my other powdercoated products held up in the same evironment?
12-15-2013, 07:37 AM
#690
JK Super Freak
I know this thread has been more specific to the suspension/lift kits but I figured I would share this too. I had a few issues with my metalcloak overland fenders which I posted about earlier in this thread and I was contacted by Matson of Metalcloak after he saw it here. I shared some info and a few pics of my issue with them so that maybe they could improve the product. Well fast forward six weeks later and now my fenders are already showing rust. I paid alot extra to have Metalcloak powdercoat these to hopefully slow down the rust from setting in. I have other products from other companies that have survived three new england winters with no rust problems at all. I am disappointed given that these front fenders were close to $800.00 with shipping and powdercoat. Come on 6 weeks? I have the rears on order with Northridge and hope these things hold up. All in $1300
<img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516925"/>
<img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516926"/>
between front and rear so it's a bit concerning being in the Northeast with all the road salt used here. Especially when this happened almost immediately after our first road salting. Why have my other powdercoated products held up in the same evironment?
<img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516925"/>
<img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516926"/>
between front and rear so it's a bit concerning being in the Northeast with all the road salt used here. Especially when this happened almost immediately after our first road salting. Why have my other powdercoated products held up in the same evironment?