Invest2m4

Let me be clear. I have nothing against RK or their product and engineering. I absolutely do not believe that custom suspension is the way to go - unless your wheeling truly demands it. My view is exactly the opposite. Most of the additional add-on mods provide little to no value. They're just not needed.

There were two things being debated here. One was the comment that RK is the best kit, period. Honestly, there is no best kit. I'd take Metalcloak joints over RK joints any day. If I had to pick an OTS arm to pair it with, I'd choose RK. One thing I like about RK is their willingness to provide semi-custom product. They'll cut you whatever length arm you want. Most manufacturers won't even consider it. Anyway, I'm not biased.

Second item for debate was simply basic understanding of suspension geometry. Again, a comment stated that the 1" RK stretch eliminated the need to trim the wheel well pinch seam, etc. That's just not true.

I don't really care what people run. Most of the quality stuff on the market today is solid. You really can't lose. My comments are made to provide better perspective and factual information. E.g. JKs are "mid-arm" to begin with. There is nothing unique about the standard RK control arms.

You don't have to appreciate the effort some of us make to clean up mis-information, but understand that's all it is and make comments accordingly.

Stubicon

Sorry if you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I was not knocking you or some others. Allow me be clear, I was simply stating that yourself, and some others, have clearly been there done that with the OTS lifts and have found weaknesses or things you would like to see done differently, and therefore have moved on to custom setups. And that the comments you, and some others, make towards other forum members are to encourage them to look beyond what a random forum members says is the best and to actually put in the time to research what best suits the needs of a specific build. Case in point, the 1" vs the 1.25" shank. RK, if they so choose, can now take that to the drawing board and decide if it's something they wish to change in their lineup. I do appreciate your, and some others, efforts to clean up misinformation but at times it comes across as, in the words of Will Ferrell, "if you don't chew big red then f*ck you."

GJeep

I, too, am not against bolt-on lifts.

I, however, went the opposite route...
Before this Rubi, I had a custom air springs suspension.
Air springs are exponentially progressive, and therefore outperform any metal spring. Ride feel is better. Sprinting on trails, the Jeep could go at nearly double the speed without jumping me off the seat or even feeling uncomfortable. At crawling speed, it sometimes had an edge, as the body could be lifted according to the slope - left or right side, front or rear.

The bottom line was that I didn't really need it...
I wasn't going to race with the Rubi, the risk of hitting an animal on narrow trails at high speed is too high. The heavily loaded Jeep, for offroading, isn't the thing for high speeds anyway. With a bolt-on lift, I can do 99% of the obstacles or slopes which I could do with the air springs system.
So, my current Rubi has a bolt-on 4" lift... It rides and handles better than a stock Rubi, which is good enough for me.

Ringer

^I would be far from saying that air springs flat out perform metal springs. They also have their drawbacks, such as a tendency to unload, and fluctuation with temperature. There are reasons that just about every rig at KOH runs metal springs. But that's not the debate here.

To the original person, long arms do make a difference. It really depends on your use of the jeep for how much you will notice it. In my opinion a long arm setup really becomes beneficial when you are running high amounts of lift(4.5-6"+) OR running long travel shocks(12"+).

A well designed long arm setup will provide better geometry throughout the suspension cycle, and can help in improving the ride characteristics(springs, shocks, and steering also play a big part here). You travel or articulation of the suspension is limited by the shocks. The benefit of the long arm is that the arc that the wheel travels during this is much larger, and therefore sees less of a change throughout the suspension cycle.

To the OP, I think you need to look at your needs and use of the jeep and do a lot more research to determine if the benefit is there for you. Also keep in mind that not all long arm setups are designed well. If you really want to dive deep into it, research 3 and 4 link design and run the numbers through a suspension calculator to help show you how the system will act compared to another(this is difficult, and no companies that I have seen actually will release their numbers, so you need to measure off others Jeeps). Good luck.

ade

Watching the F1 qualifying. What are all the teams doing, asking now the drivers arse is. No they are all looking at computer screens and data sheets.

Invest2m4

Actually, I believe they implant sensors into the drivers butt. So technically, it is an advanced seat of the pants technology.

ade

Frank Williams take note, the JK community has just discovered why your cars are so slow this year. Your drivers arse telemetry is out of calibration. ;-/)

GJeep

They show you only what the editor decided to leave after cutting out most of the raw material.

One example out of many:
A friend of mine was 4 times the rally champion in a European country. There were sensors and a computer, but the final say how to adjust was his.

GJeep

The benefits begin before we regard air springs as springs:

Being able to lift/lower one side, to neutralize some of the angle of a steep side slope.
The same, regarding steep inclines/declines.
The bottom sits on a rock? Lift to 9”, get the Jeep off it, lower back to the 4” or whatever and keep going.
None of this can be done with metal springs.

We know the advantages of dual-rate, triple-rate, progressive-rate or coil-overs, over regular coils.
Air springs do what each of those do, but much better, because not only they are truly progressive, they are exponentially progressive - something that no coil can do.
I have yet to see a coils-based system that can ‘smoothen’ a trail so much, at high speed, and, at the same time, be so soft on roads at any speed.

If properly done, than no, air springs do not have a ‘tendency’ to unload. I used them daily and offroad, they never leaked along 2 years.
But yes, the chance is there, and metal coils never leak... so I agree with you that the downside is complexity and possible leaks. More complexity equals less reliability, that’s why they are not more common.

No, there’s no fluctuation with temperature or altitude. If you set them to, say, 50 psi, be it sub-zero or a hot desert, sea level or 9000 ft. high, 50psi is 50psi.
On my Jeep, the air springs system worked even better than usual, because of an additional expansion air tank for each wheel.

However, I agree with you 100% on one thing -- that's not the debate here…

Maertz

ive wheeled with a few guys on air, and other than the leveling to a degree in some rare scenarios they got there asses kick on alot of climbs. Now his may not have been set up very well, but he had a shop do it and it costed a shit ton., my guess is they were set up like shit. i wont go into any arguments though as i have no personal experience with it like you.