Locker quandry
05-31-2012, 06:56 AM
#21
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Do you know how a gear-driven LSD (like the TrueTrac) works? Can you explain how it adds heat? Imparts shock? TrueTrac, now, not Detroit Locker.
My TrueTracs made my JK much easier to drive on the trails, I'm sure. Not only does it feel like it's pulling better over and through obstacles, a buddy with an unlocked JK remarked that when he watched me go through the same obstacles he had my Jeep looked like it did with far less effort. I'd like to say it was due to my superior driving skills, but...
I think someone remarked that he seldomly used his lockers, but were glad they were there when he did. I can see that, sure, but I chose to put in something that helps me most of the time.
My TrueTracs made my JK much easier to drive on the trails, I'm sure. Not only does it feel like it's pulling better over and through obstacles, a buddy with an unlocked JK remarked that when he watched me go through the same obstacles he had my Jeep looked like it did with far less effort. I'd like to say it was due to my superior driving skills, but...
I think someone remarked that he seldomly used his lockers, but were glad they were there when he did. I can see that, sure, but I chose to put in something that helps me most of the time.
05-31-2012, 08:02 AM
#22
Sponsoring Manufacturer
To the OP-
Based on the driving style you have described and your previous experience, I'd say your TT option is the best bet. I'm not a fan of the Ected and using clutches in an off road rig isn't the best choice. You'll be very happy with the TT performance.
FWIW- The JK 30 is much stronger than earlier Jeeps but the JK is also heavier, wider and accepts larger tires easier. With the axle shaft options available for the JK, the R&P is frequently the fuse. That said, the 30 is still the right choice for some users and the TT will perform well. It's just a matter of knowing and respecting your limitations.
About 10 years ago I was a beta tester for Detroit's Electrac selectable locker. This locker had a Truetrac base and went to full lock with a 12v switch. It was a decent unit but was killed when Eaton bought Tractech (Detroit Locker). I had the Electrac in both ends of my CJ (44's at both ends). The Truetrac function was amazing. On one winter trip I did we had deep snow, muddy roots, snotty hills and slick rocks (no real rock crawling). I never locked them the entire day.
Many of my buddies on that trip had ARBs and I could hear their compressors running, off and on, all day, as they needed their lockers frequently. That day I learned an important lesson- most of the time when you switch on a traditional selectable locker, it's not because you need a locker, it's because you need something more than open. The Truetrac is enough for just about everything except the rock crawler.
Just my .02 cents.
Based on the driving style you have described and your previous experience, I'd say your TT option is the best bet. I'm not a fan of the Ected and using clutches in an off road rig isn't the best choice. You'll be very happy with the TT performance.
FWIW- The JK 30 is much stronger than earlier Jeeps but the JK is also heavier, wider and accepts larger tires easier. With the axle shaft options available for the JK, the R&P is frequently the fuse. That said, the 30 is still the right choice for some users and the TT will perform well. It's just a matter of knowing and respecting your limitations.
About 10 years ago I was a beta tester for Detroit's Electrac selectable locker. This locker had a Truetrac base and went to full lock with a 12v switch. It was a decent unit but was killed when Eaton bought Tractech (Detroit Locker). I had the Electrac in both ends of my CJ (44's at both ends). The Truetrac function was amazing. On one winter trip I did we had deep snow, muddy roots, snotty hills and slick rocks (no real rock crawling). I never locked them the entire day.
Many of my buddies on that trip had ARBs and I could hear their compressors running, off and on, all day, as they needed their lockers frequently. That day I learned an important lesson- most of the time when you switch on a traditional selectable locker, it's not because you need a locker, it's because you need something more than open. The Truetrac is enough for just about everything except the rock crawler.
Just my .02 cents.
05-31-2012, 08:08 AM
#23
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Nitro sleeves and gusset kit ($220)
Detroit True-Trac ($380)
maybe solid axles ($699)
Dana 44 front axle ($2000-2500)
This has been whats driving me crazy.....I settle on open D30 front and Ected in the rear D44, then people talk Detroit True-Trac LSD front and rear, and I like how that sounds....then it always turns into changing out the front D30 to D44......not doing that.
So......open front and Ected rear, or True-Trac front and rear?
Detroit True-Trac ($380)
maybe solid axles ($699)
Dana 44 front axle ($2000-2500)
This has been whats driving me crazy.....I settle on open D30 front and Ected in the rear D44, then people talk Detroit True-Trac LSD front and rear, and I like how that sounds....then it always turns into changing out the front D30 to D44......not doing that.
So......open front and Ected rear, or True-Trac front and rear?
I would not do an Ected. I have one in my garage right now. It did not always unlock reliably, and I'm told the teeth only grab by 1/4" or so. I have an ARB now and it is much better. I would rethink the Ected in the rear if it were me.
I would do the True Tracs front and rear if I were you. Really miss my old CJ with that setup
05-31-2012, 08:20 AM
#24
JK Enthusiast
Do you know how a gear-driven LSD (like the TrueTrac) works? Can you explain how it adds heat? Imparts shock? TrueTrac, now, not Detroit Locker.
My TrueTracs made my JK much easier to drive on the trails, I'm sure. Not only does it feel like it's pulling better over and through obstacles, a buddy with an unlocked JK remarked that when he watched me go through the same obstacles he had my Jeep looked like it did with far less effort. I'd like to say it was due to my superior driving skills, but...
I think someone remarked that he seldomly used his lockers, but were glad they were there when he did. I can see that, sure, but I chose to put in something that helps me most of the time.
My TrueTracs made my JK much easier to drive on the trails, I'm sure. Not only does it feel like it's pulling better over and through obstacles, a buddy with an unlocked JK remarked that when he watched me go through the same obstacles he had my Jeep looked like it did with far less effort. I'd like to say it was due to my superior driving skills, but...
I think someone remarked that he seldomly used his lockers, but were glad they were there when he did. I can see that, sure, but I chose to put in something that helps me most of the time.
Personally Im also more comfortable not rebuilding my diffs on a trail then I am say snapping an axle shaft. So I would either leave them open or go with an ARB locker and transfer that weak point someplace else.
There is no one right answer. Everyone is different and we all have a preference based on our own past experiences. Im happy to see so many possible options in the first place available on the market. This just means more of us can enjoy what our jeeps were meant to do in the first place.
05-31-2012, 08:31 AM
#25
Sponsoring Manufacturer
There's some incorrect info here.
Truetracs don't have springs and they can't be rebuilt. They act as an open unit until they sense a wheel torque differential. That torque difference causes a bind in the case (a hardened case as anyone that has tried to drill one will attest) which helps send torque to the wheel with traction. Since the units were redesigned about 5 years ago and some parts were added to make them stronger, the failure rate is near ZERO. Eaton provides warranty for tires up to 38" (even on a D30). Truetracs aren't for every type of wheeler but for many they are a great choice. They are the ONLY LSD I recommend for off road use.
Truetracs don't have springs and they can't be rebuilt. They act as an open unit until they sense a wheel torque differential. That torque difference causes a bind in the case (a hardened case as anyone that has tried to drill one will attest) which helps send torque to the wheel with traction. Since the units were redesigned about 5 years ago and some parts were added to make them stronger, the failure rate is near ZERO. Eaton provides warranty for tires up to 38" (even on a D30). Truetracs aren't for every type of wheeler but for many they are a great choice. They are the ONLY LSD I recommend for off road use.
05-31-2012, 08:43 AM
#26
JK Enthusiast
There's some incorrect info here.
Truetracs don't have springs and they can't be rebuilt. They act as an open unit until they sense a wheel torque differential. That torque difference causes a bind in the case (a hardened case as anyone that has tried to drill one will attest) which helps send torque to the wheel with traction. Since the units were redesigned about 5 years ago and some parts were added to make them stronger, the failure rate is near ZERO. Eaton provides warranty for tires up to 38" (even on a D30). Truetracs aren't for every type of wheeler but for many they are a great choice. They are the ONLY LSD I recommend for off road use.
Truetracs don't have springs and they can't be rebuilt. They act as an open unit until they sense a wheel torque differential. That torque difference causes a bind in the case (a hardened case as anyone that has tried to drill one will attest) which helps send torque to the wheel with traction. Since the units were redesigned about 5 years ago and some parts were added to make them stronger, the failure rate is near ZERO. Eaton provides warranty for tires up to 38" (even on a D30). Truetracs aren't for every type of wheeler but for many they are a great choice. They are the ONLY LSD I recommend for off road use.
05-31-2012, 09:17 AM
#27
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Great thread and lots of good talk. I appreciate the input.
Been wheeling a long time and honestly very rarely used the lockers in either Rubicon I owned, but there are trips up into the mountains where they have come in handy.
As to the guy talking about swapping out a D44, I'm not sure how much more clear I can be in saying its not. An option....there is nothing wrong with the D30. I can do the sleeve and gusset job myself, and at some point down the road upgrade the axles and ring and pinion....not in the plans for now.
I've heard some people rave about the Ected, and some blast them as unreliable... And that they wear out or get damaged easily.
So it seems you guys think the True-Trac LSD in the rear is a good option for a moderate rig.....Ive hear dont put one up front because it really hurts steering.
Been wheeling a long time and honestly very rarely used the lockers in either Rubicon I owned, but there are trips up into the mountains where they have come in handy.
As to the guy talking about swapping out a D44, I'm not sure how much more clear I can be in saying its not. An option....there is nothing wrong with the D30. I can do the sleeve and gusset job myself, and at some point down the road upgrade the axles and ring and pinion....not in the plans for now.
I've heard some people rave about the Ected, and some blast them as unreliable... And that they wear out or get damaged easily.
So it seems you guys think the True-Trac LSD in the rear is a good option for a moderate rig.....Ive hear dont put one up front because it really hurts steering.
05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
#28
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The problem with a TruTrac is it's a limited slip. You lift one of your tires on that axle it's just going to spin the lifted tire. Not so great for rock crawling or anything technical. Yeah, there's that brake dance trick but it's no where near as effective as a regular locker.
05-31-2012, 09:44 AM
#29
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Great thread and lots of good talk. I appreciate the input.
Been wheeling a long time and honestly very rarely used the lockers in either Rubicon I owned, but there are trips up into the mountains where they have come in handy.
As to the guy talking about swapping out a D44, I'm not sure how much more clear I can be in saying its not. An option....there is nothing wrong with the D30. I can do the sleeve and gusset job myself, and at some point down the road upgrade the axles and ring and pinion....not in the plans for now.
I've heard some people rave about the Ected, and some blast them as unreliable... And that they wear out or get damaged easily.
So it seems you guys think the True-Trac LSD in the rear is a good option for a moderate rig.....Ive hear dont put one up front because it really hurts steering.
Been wheeling a long time and honestly very rarely used the lockers in either Rubicon I owned, but there are trips up into the mountains where they have come in handy.
As to the guy talking about swapping out a D44, I'm not sure how much more clear I can be in saying its not. An option....there is nothing wrong with the D30. I can do the sleeve and gusset job myself, and at some point down the road upgrade the axles and ring and pinion....not in the plans for now.
I've heard some people rave about the Ected, and some blast them as unreliable... And that they wear out or get damaged easily.
So it seems you guys think the True-Trac LSD in the rear is a good option for a moderate rig.....Ive hear dont put one up front because it really hurts steering.
The problem with a TruTrac is it's a limited slip. You lift one of your tires on that axle it's just going to spin the lifted tire. Not so great for rock crawling or anything technical. Yeah, there's that brake dance trick but it's no where near as effective as a regular locker.
This past weekend weekend I went out with some buddies and ran some trails. My rig is a sport wit a stock 2.73:1 ration. One of the other two guys has a Rubi with a 4:1 ratio, the other has an Atlas with an 11;1 ratio. We did 2 grade 5 hills The first hill they had no trouble and I had to winch the last 5 feet as I could not crawl it - not low enough geared. The second hill they both struggled on and I flew up with no problem because of the composition of the gravel worked better with a higher gear ratio, and wheel speed worked better than crawling.
For some people LSDs are the better option. It's all situational and compromises. You setup for the conditions you encounter most often and winch through the rest. the OP may not ever climb rocks.
05-31-2012, 09:54 AM
#30
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Limited Slips can hurt steering in slippery conditions, just like a locker, if installed in the front axle. If it's truly so slippery that a tire can lose traction the LS will probably send all the power to that side and cause torque steer and sideways movement.
Used to know a guy with a TJ with a tight factory limited slip and he HATED it in the Northern Michigan winters. Said he'd rather have had a true locker if he was going to be sliding all over like he was locked. His was in the rear but it applies to the front all the same.
Personally I don't offroad much or all that hard any more. I can however say even when just bumping around on two tracks in the woods there were times when I was trying to get over a ledge or out of a rut or up a steep incline I'd run into trouble with the open diffs or limited slips just not transferring the torque to the tire with traction enough. I've never had trouble with automatic lockers in the rear like many folks seem to be so afraid of so to me I'd rather have a locker in the rear axle. Minor on road driving inconvenience and major offroad improvement.
Used to know a guy with a TJ with a tight factory limited slip and he HATED it in the Northern Michigan winters. Said he'd rather have had a true locker if he was going to be sliding all over like he was locked. His was in the rear but it applies to the front all the same.
Personally I don't offroad much or all that hard any more. I can however say even when just bumping around on two tracks in the woods there were times when I was trying to get over a ledge or out of a rut or up a steep incline I'd run into trouble with the open diffs or limited slips just not transferring the torque to the tire with traction enough. I've never had trouble with automatic lockers in the rear like many folks seem to be so afraid of so to me I'd rather have a locker in the rear axle. Minor on road driving inconvenience and major offroad improvement.