Lift with Steering Stabilizer
05-13-2013, 06:54 PM
#11
JK Newbie
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^No.
Actually the stock ones are pretty good. You don't need to replace it unless its bent, dented, or leaking. I would however relocate it up and out of harms way.
Bilstiens are notorious of leaking, and just like all the other nitrogen charged SS's, will cause the JK to pull one direction or the other unless you run a dual kit, which is a complete waste IMO.
Your cheaper ones, are, well, cheaper. The OME stabilizer is prolly one of the better ones, but it works as good as stock. The teraflex one I had for all of 3 days I could feel cavitate by hand (bad).
So again, stock is fine. Unless you plan on running a real fancy stabilizer (hydro assist)
Actually the stock ones are pretty good. You don't need to replace it unless its bent, dented, or leaking. I would however relocate it up and out of harms way.
Bilstiens are notorious of leaking, and just like all the other nitrogen charged SS's, will cause the JK to pull one direction or the other unless you run a dual kit, which is a complete waste IMO.
Your cheaper ones, are, well, cheaper. The OME stabilizer is prolly one of the better ones, but it works as good as stock. The teraflex one I had for all of 3 days I could feel cavitate by hand (bad).
So again, stock is fine. Unless you plan on running a real fancy stabilizer (hydro assist)
Bilsteins are NOT notorious for leaking. I've installed dozens and they have fewer issues than most other "good" brands. I've got over 60k miles on a bilstein stabilizer that's been dealing with 40" Boggers through nasty gumbo mud, and it's still doing fine.
05-14-2013, 04:54 AM
#12
JK Super Freak
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Well, since this is Modified Tech, why not....
Can you please elaborate on how exactly you are applying the term "understeer"? Cause no matter what way you look at it, a stabilizer is not going to have any impact on understeer. Not even in the same ball park.
Understeer is the tendancy for the vehicle to steer less than driver input. This has everything to do with suspesnsion geometry and how it behaves to weight transfer changes and nothing to do with a dampener attached to the tie rod. For anyone who cares, understeer on a jeep would be do to the relationship between the center of gravity and the roll center of the front and rear axle, the length of the control arms and control arm instant centers, and the "steering effect" of weight transfer in a corner and body roll. Adding a stabilizer wont change link geometry.
I guess my jest was lost in text. The hydro assist comment was a joke as the "ultimate steering stabilizer". At no point was I giving advice regarding that, but since you questioned my "understanding of hydraulics"...
The fact the the vehicle you drove was on D60's and had a hemi doesn't really means anything in terms of hydro performance. The 39.5" tires, a little more relevant. What diameter and stroke ram? What pump? The fact that there was little to no "assist" at idle is a common problem with either an oversized ram or an undersized pump. An idle lag is because the pump cant maintain the proper hydraulic pressure at an acceptable mass flow rate for the diameter of the ram. So, either you lower the ram diameter (which will lower your overall force applied) or you increase the pump capability (for instance, a pump that can provide 1200 psi at 6 gpm at idle as opposed to one that can provide 1200 psi at 3.5 gpm at idle). On the opposite side of the spectrum however, if your pump oversized for the diameter of your ram, you will have twitchy steering at highway speed with loss of feel.
A properly designed system will be a balance of both... but what do I know, I built mine from scratch.
As far as the bilstien's leaking, their shocks are fine, but look somewhere else other than JK-F and you'll see if not that uncommon. It's not every SS, but it happens.
Now, in terms of the "pull", yes it can happen. You are installing a nitrogen charged shock. Monotube shocks are charged and pressurized with nitrogen (which causes them always to extend) which WILL exert a force on the tie rod depending on how "charged" they are. This can be felt in the wheel.
Just the fact that the people who said no think a steering stabilizer has anything to do with a lift kit, I would ignore that advice. The steering stabilizer is mainly necessary due to the horrible understeer during braking that Jeeps have. You can cram 35's under a JK without any lift, and the larger tires will require an upgrade to help reduce the issues of understeer, it has nothing to do with the height of the suspension. It also help when offroad to dampen the impacts to the tires that are transmitted to the steering wheel.
I've installed more than my fair share of Shocks/stabilizers. Not upgrading your stabilizer with bigger tires makes about as much sense as not upgrading your shocks with a lift kit.
I've installed more than my fair share of Shocks/stabilizers. Not upgrading your stabilizer with bigger tires makes about as much sense as not upgrading your shocks with a lift kit.
Understeer is the tendancy for the vehicle to steer less than driver input. This has everything to do with suspesnsion geometry and how it behaves to weight transfer changes and nothing to do with a dampener attached to the tie rod. For anyone who cares, understeer on a jeep would be do to the relationship between the center of gravity and the roll center of the front and rear axle, the length of the control arms and control arm instant centers, and the "steering effect" of weight transfer in a corner and body roll. Adding a stabilizer wont change link geometry.
So you could feel yours cavitate, yet you're giving advice on hydraulic assist? Your statements don't add up. They're not even related, if you understand basic hydraulics. I've driven with hydraulic assist, on a rock crusher 60 with 39.5's with a 5.7 Hemi swap. Good luck making the tires turn while the motor is at low idle. I don't ever recommend running dual stabilizers unless you find it absolutely necessary for your particular situation, and no and upgraded single won't cause the vehicle to pull unless it's installed wrong, which is pretty hard to do, it's a steering damper, the bound and rebound are set the same.
Bilsteins are NOT notorious for leaking. I've installed dozens and they have fewer issues than most other "good" brands. I've got over 60k miles on a bilstein stabilizer that's been dealing with 40" Boggers through nasty gumbo mud, and it's still doing fine.
Bilsteins are NOT notorious for leaking. I've installed dozens and they have fewer issues than most other "good" brands. I've got over 60k miles on a bilstein stabilizer that's been dealing with 40" Boggers through nasty gumbo mud, and it's still doing fine.
The fact the the vehicle you drove was on D60's and had a hemi doesn't really means anything in terms of hydro performance. The 39.5" tires, a little more relevant. What diameter and stroke ram? What pump? The fact that there was little to no "assist" at idle is a common problem with either an oversized ram or an undersized pump. An idle lag is because the pump cant maintain the proper hydraulic pressure at an acceptable mass flow rate for the diameter of the ram. So, either you lower the ram diameter (which will lower your overall force applied) or you increase the pump capability (for instance, a pump that can provide 1200 psi at 6 gpm at idle as opposed to one that can provide 1200 psi at 3.5 gpm at idle). On the opposite side of the spectrum however, if your pump oversized for the diameter of your ram, you will have twitchy steering at highway speed with loss of feel.
A properly designed system will be a balance of both... but what do I know, I built mine from scratch.
As far as the bilstien's leaking, their shocks are fine, but look somewhere else other than JK-F and you'll see if not that uncommon. It's not every SS, but it happens.
Now, in terms of the "pull", yes it can happen. You are installing a nitrogen charged shock. Monotube shocks are charged and pressurized with nitrogen (which causes them always to extend) which WILL exert a force on the tie rod depending on how "charged" they are. This can be felt in the wheel.
05-14-2013, 04:58 AM
#13
JK Super Freak
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In other words.... A steering stabilizer is designed to take shock out of the steering system, reducing stress on the drag link and tie rod members and rod ends, and the steering box. The stock one does just fine.
But if you get DW your steering stabilizer is the culprit
But if you get DW your steering stabilizer is the culprit
05-14-2013, 06:08 AM
#14
JK Freak
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Just the fact that the people who said no think a steering stabilizer has anything to do with a lift kit, I would ignore that advice. The steering stabilizer is mainly necessary due to the horrible understeer during braking that Jeeps have. You can cram 35's under a JK without any lift, and the larger tires will require an upgrade to help reduce the issues of understeer, it has nothing to do with the height of the suspension. It also help when offroad to dampen the impacts to the tires that are transmitted to the steering wheel.
I've installed more than my fair share of Shocks/stabilizers. Not upgrading your stabilizer with bigger tires makes about as much sense as not upgrading your shocks with a lift kit.
I've installed more than my fair share of Shocks/stabilizers. Not upgrading your stabilizer with bigger tires makes about as much sense as not upgrading your shocks with a lift kit.
horrible understeer during braking that Jeeps have?? are you sure you understand what understeering is.
05-14-2013, 07:52 AM
#15
JK Super Freak
The amount of misinformation on forums is quite high. I like that JKF added forum techs to the list but there are definitely not enought of them. JKred knows his sh**t so I usually grab some popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show when someone calls him out! Maybe he will become a forum tech someday....