If you could choose any coil...
07-18-2014, 05:31 PM
#21
If you know the spring rate of your current coils you could find a coil set the offers less of a spring rate (lets say 50 pounds less) but the same ride height, that would give you a softer ride.
07-18-2014, 05:54 PM
#22
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Some of my recent experiences. Keeping in mind its a straight axle truck that we are driving and I lean towards a softer ride vs harder. Harder to me, well, read below.
I ran Old Man Emu light/medium load 2" springs and their Nitrocharger shocks. I also changed to their Nitrocharger Sport shocks. Both shock series come in 0-2" lengths and 3-5" lengths (ie 27" extended). The softest, plush ride was the first combination of their springs and the regular Nitrocharger shocks. The Nitrocharger Sport shocks increased the firmness a little but overall very much enjoyed the ride. Sometimes when I forgot I was driving a Jeep, taking a corner faster than I should I would think a little stiffer might be nice but overall I like the soft ride.
A few weeks ago I upgraded to MetalCloak 2.5" springs and the long version of the OME Nitrocharger Sport shocks (MC ARB Dual Rate kit essentially). Still rides great. A little bit firmer than before but still would call soft. I like it. And it flexes like a crazy woman!
Just this week I had the opportunity to ride in a brand new JKUR that had received a 3" Synergy kit with Fox 2.0 IPS shocks. I have to admit I was surprised how soft it was in relation to mine. I really had expected it to feel firmer but it didn't. It felt great. I was impressed.
A friend has the Rock Krawler 2.5" max with Bilsteins on his. Not triple rate. I do not like the way it rides. Too me its hard. Feel everything in a more jarring way. Think firm sports car feel. Thing flexes like a crazy woman though and overall he likes it. Each is his own.
But yes OP, there is a ton of marketing BS out there. AEV and EVO among the best at it IMO.
I ran Old Man Emu light/medium load 2" springs and their Nitrocharger shocks. I also changed to their Nitrocharger Sport shocks. Both shock series come in 0-2" lengths and 3-5" lengths (ie 27" extended). The softest, plush ride was the first combination of their springs and the regular Nitrocharger shocks. The Nitrocharger Sport shocks increased the firmness a little but overall very much enjoyed the ride. Sometimes when I forgot I was driving a Jeep, taking a corner faster than I should I would think a little stiffer might be nice but overall I like the soft ride.
A few weeks ago I upgraded to MetalCloak 2.5" springs and the long version of the OME Nitrocharger Sport shocks (MC ARB Dual Rate kit essentially). Still rides great. A little bit firmer than before but still would call soft. I like it. And it flexes like a crazy woman!
Just this week I had the opportunity to ride in a brand new JKUR that had received a 3" Synergy kit with Fox 2.0 IPS shocks. I have to admit I was surprised how soft it was in relation to mine. I really had expected it to feel firmer but it didn't. It felt great. I was impressed.
A friend has the Rock Krawler 2.5" max with Bilsteins on his. Not triple rate. I do not like the way it rides. Too me its hard. Feel everything in a more jarring way. Think firm sports car feel. Thing flexes like a crazy woman though and overall he likes it. Each is his own.
But yes OP, there is a ton of marketing BS out there. AEV and EVO among the best at it IMO.
07-18-2014, 07:48 PM
#24
The spring doesn't keep the tire on the road, the weight of the Jeep does. The spring cushions between the wheel and the frame. The shock is resistance to the speed in which the spring compresses or decompresses. Without the shock, the Jeep body would bounce too much. Spring and shock work together as a system, so one can't be regarded without the other. The hardness or softness of a spring, is determined by the spring coefficient. This means that every spring which keeps the same weight at the same height, would have about the same spring coefficient. Therefore, for the same Jeep and load, there would not be much difference in 'softness'. Differences can exist below or above the ride height: Compression beyond the ride height may be harder, or decompression below ride height may be softer, by using dual-rate, or progressive coils, for instance. They would still have the same softness~hardness near the ride height. What can change the ride softness, by much more, is the shock. The shock resists the coil movement, so the body typically moves about 1.5 up/down cycles. By re-valving, or tuning a tunable a shock, or by choosing a different shock, its' resistance can be changed and the overall softness with it. If too soft, the bump stops will be hit too often. Well, 'soft' is more than just a 'term'. Different coil/shock combinations result in very different overall ride hardness or softness. My suspension isn't unique -- Full Traction 4" lift and Fox shocks -- but with properly re-valved shocks, the Jeep is definitely softer than a similarly loaded stock Jeep. Shocks that can be tuned by the driver, by turning a knob, are, IMO, the best option.
Tomato - Tamoto....you guys are basically saying the same thing.
07-19-2014, 02:11 AM
#26
Under the same weight, a ('softer') coil with smaller spring coefficient, is a 'weaker' spring, so it would compress more, resulting in lower ride height.
Harder coils would compress less under the Jeeps' weight, will increase lift, and make harder ride.
Softer coils would compress more under the Jeeps' weight, will decrease lift, and make softer ride.
For lifting, say, 2.5" or 4", we do not use a different coil coefficient, we use longer coils.
Last edited by GJeep; 07-19-2014 at 03:34 AM.
07-19-2014, 02:42 AM
#27
Don't be "heavy" -- notice the smiley in that post... I was kidding...
Besides, if we think outside the box, 'no coil' can be regarded as a private case -- 'pulled to an extreme'...
Besides, if we think outside the box, 'no coil' can be regarded as a private case -- 'pulled to an extreme'...
Last edited by GJeep; 07-19-2014 at 03:36 AM.
07-19-2014, 06:32 AM
#28
'Spring coefficient', or 'rate', determines how much would a coil compress/sink under a certain weight. Under the same weight, a ('softer') coil with smaller spring coefficient, is a 'weaker' spring, so it would compress more, resulting in lower ride height. Harder coils would compress less under the Jeeps' weight, will increase lift, and make harder ride. Softer coils would compress more under the Jeeps' weight, will decrease lift, and make softer ride. For lifting, say, 2.5" or 4", we do not use a different coil coefficient, we use longer coils.
Last edited by sea bass; 07-19-2014 at 07:24 AM.
07-19-2014, 08:45 AM
#29
Originally Posted by GJeep
'Spring coefficient', or 'rate', determines how much would a coil compress/sink under a certain weight.
Under the same weight, a ('softer') coil with smaller spring coefficient, is a 'weaker' spring, so it would compress more, resulting in lower ride height.
Harder coils would compress less under the Jeeps' weight, will increase lift, and make harder ride. Softer coils would compress more under the Jeeps' weight, will decrease lift, and make softer ride.
For lifting, say, 2.5" or 4", we do not use a different coil coefficient, we use longer coils.
'Spring coefficient', or 'rate', determines how much would a coil compress/sink under a certain weight.
Under the same weight, a ('softer') coil with smaller spring coefficient, is a 'weaker' spring, so it would compress more, resulting in lower ride height.
Harder coils would compress less under the Jeeps' weight, will increase lift, and make harder ride. Softer coils would compress more under the Jeeps' weight, will decrease lift, and make softer ride.
For lifting, say, 2.5" or 4", we do not use a different coil coefficient, we use longer coils.
However, it does show what I said:
Notice that they offer the same coils (=same spring coefficient) for 2-dr and 4-dr.
The same spring length & coefficient result in less lift for the 4-dr, because the same coil compresses more under the larger weight.
BTW, because ride feel depends of both the spring coefficient and the vehicle weight, the same coils would give harder ride on the lighter 2-dr, softer ride on the heavier 4-dr.
I'd, therefore, use softer shocks on the 2-dr.
The actual lift is the result of a balance between two forces. The Jeep weight pushes the coil downwards, the coil pushes the Jeep upwards. The Jeep presses the coil down , until the coil resists the load with equal force. At this point, the two forces balance each other and the Jeep stops sinking -- that's where the ride height is.
For a 'harder' spring, the force balance will be at a higher level, and for a 'softer' spring, the force balance is at a lower level.
Last edited by GJeep; 07-19-2014 at 10:13 PM.
07-19-2014, 12:14 PM
#30
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Same with the Rock Krawlers coils. There's only 1 coil. 2 doors see about a 1" more in ride height.
The progressive/linear coil rode a little rough on the roads around here compared to the triple rates. Running my 9000 shocks at a lower setting helped compensate ....a little.
With the new coils, I can run my shocks up a few clicks for a sportier feel without being harsh. DD I usually stay at 4 don't and 3 rear. For a light weight 2 door on E rated tires it drives really well... I was told the front ride rates to be 130-150 #/in which I believe is compatible to stock.'
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed
The progressive/linear coil rode a little rough on the roads around here compared to the triple rates. Running my 9000 shocks at a lower setting helped compensate ....a little.
With the new coils, I can run my shocks up a few clicks for a sportier feel without being harsh. DD I usually stay at 4 don't and 3 rear. For a light weight 2 door on E rated tires it drives really well... I was told the front ride rates to be 130-150 #/in which I believe is compatible to stock.'
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed