Help with Pinion Nut Removal
04-26-2009, 12:44 PM
#11
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Success with the Nuts
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your input.
I busted the front and rear nuts loose after buying a Craftsman professional impact gun. It was on sale (and I had a coupon for Sears
) so it wasn't too bad a deal. Not as good as what Rob had recommended; but, I was able to pick it up this morning.
The front nut was a real bitch. Even with the new impact it had to really work before it began to loosen. The rear nut wasn't nearly as tough.
Now to admit a screw-up. I was in such a hurry to give the new socket for the rear pinion (another trip to AutoZone
) that I didn't mark the pinion nut and the shaft. I'm still curious whether marking it would really be fool-proof since the yokes may not fit on the spline the same. So, now I am really second-guessing myself.
I am pretty certain that I am going to use the less powerful impact gun with the air regulator set to the lowest level and red Loctite and stop when the impact gun begins to hammer. I know I am opening the door for criticism; but, has anyone had success, or failure with this method? (I may end up taking it to the shop that has done rear end work for me in the past just to have them check it out.)
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
Thanks for all your input.
I busted the front and rear nuts loose after buying a Craftsman professional impact gun. It was on sale (and I had a coupon for Sears
) so it wasn't too bad a deal. Not as good as what Rob had recommended; but, I was able to pick it up this morning.The front nut was a real bitch. Even with the new impact it had to really work before it began to loosen. The rear nut wasn't nearly as tough.
Now to admit a screw-up. I was in such a hurry to give the new socket for the rear pinion (another trip to AutoZone
) that I didn't mark the pinion nut and the shaft. I'm still curious whether marking it would really be fool-proof since the yokes may not fit on the spline the same. So, now I am really second-guessing myself.I am pretty certain that I am going to use the less powerful impact gun with the air regulator set to the lowest level and red Loctite and stop when the impact gun begins to hammer. I know I am opening the door for criticism; but, has anyone had success, or failure with this method? (I may end up taking it to the shop that has done rear end work for me in the past just to have them check it out.)
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
04-26-2009, 04:40 PM
#12
JK Super Freak
your not screwed. If you wanna pick up another tool 
with a beam style inch pound torque wrench you can go ahead and measure your bearing preload...which in the end is the better method...put it back togeter with the locktite, then measure torque to rotate...with used bearings, and the carrier and everything else installed, a good number should be anywhere from 17-31 inch pounds to rotate the pinion...and that's while it's rotating, not what it takes to start it rotating.....just go ahead and put 'er back together, start tightening the nut down until there is no play in the pinion at all, then slowly start adding a little at a time until you have the recommended torque to rotate....it shouldn't rotate easily, it should take a fair amount of force to rotate it, not a ton, but a good grasp and turn with the hand is required....hope this helps you out
with a beam style inch pound torque wrench you can go ahead and measure your bearing preload...which in the end is the better method...put it back togeter with the locktite, then measure torque to rotate...with used bearings, and the carrier and everything else installed, a good number should be anywhere from 17-31 inch pounds to rotate the pinion...and that's while it's rotating, not what it takes to start it rotating.....just go ahead and put 'er back together, start tightening the nut down until there is no play in the pinion at all, then slowly start adding a little at a time until you have the recommended torque to rotate....it shouldn't rotate easily, it should take a fair amount of force to rotate it, not a ton, but a good grasp and turn with the hand is required....hope this helps you out
04-26-2009, 05:24 PM
#13
Whatever you do, accurately set the torque on the pinion nuts.
I torqued mine down to 165 ft lbs, with red loctite.
I know of one case on a chevy where the owner just tightened it on with an impact, 400 miles later he was by the side of the road with a shredded differential.
My buddy at the machine shop got the TRE out of the pitman arm for me today, but not until after he bent something on a 8 ton press!
I torqued mine down to 165 ft lbs, with red loctite.
I know of one case on a chevy where the owner just tightened it on with an impact, 400 miles later he was by the side of the road with a shredded differential.
My buddy at the machine shop got the TRE out of the pitman arm for me today, but not until after he bent something on a 8 ton press!
04-26-2009, 05:33 PM
#14
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I installed a new front drive shaft yesterday and had to remove the pinion nut that you struggled with. After reading this post this morning, I got a little nervous that I might've done something bad. Fortunately, a member of my local club is a certified Jeep mechanic. So, I posted the first response to this thread in a question to him... Here is his response:
I just wanted to post it as an FYI... for what its worth.
There is no possible way to crush that collar any further with an impact wrench. Unless you use a 1" drive wrench rated at 1500ft/lbs, you can't change the pre-load. I have set up hundreds, possibly thousands of differentials and when they use a crush sleeve (or collar) it takes an immense amount of torque to even begin to crush it. No 1/2" drive impact wrench is capable of truly producing the constant 300+ lb/ft of torque needed to set pinion pre-load. It is all done by hand using a HUGE pull handle and socket. The veins on my forehead pop out when setting pinion pre-load. Pinion bearing pre-load is a measured amount of rolling torque and can only be read using a dial torque wrench. Once it is set, it is set until the differential is completely disassembled and bearings removed. You did not and cannot do any damage to your diff by removing the driveshaft/flange/pinion seal, etc.. and re-installing it the way you did.
What happens in the event that you need to replace a pinion seal? The flange is designed to be removable, re-installed and all done with your favorite tools of choice. The instructions on dealer connect have the installer using factory tools, because they are available to the dealer personnel. "Garage tools" are fine to use. It is not recommended to use any loc-tite on the pinion nut. It IS a lock nut.
What happens in the event that you need to replace a pinion seal? The flange is designed to be removable, re-installed and all done with your favorite tools of choice. The instructions on dealer connect have the installer using factory tools, because they are available to the dealer personnel. "Garage tools" are fine to use. It is not recommended to use any loc-tite on the pinion nut. It IS a lock nut.
04-26-2009, 05:36 PM
#15
your not screwed. If you wanna pick up another tool with a beam style inch pound torque wrench you can go ahead and measure your bearing preload...which in the end is the better method...put it back togeter with the locktite, then measure torque to rotate...with used bearings, and the carrier and everything else installed, a good number should be anywhere from 17-31 inch pounds to rotate the pinion...and that's while it's rotating, not what it takes to start it rotating.....just go ahead and put 'er back together, start tightening the nut down until there is no play in the pinion at all, then slowly start adding a little at a time until you have the recommended torque to rotate....it shouldn't rotate easily, it should take a fair amount of force to rotate it, not a ton, but a good grasp and turn with the hand is required....hope this helps you out
with a beam style inch pound torque wrench you can go ahead and measure your bearing preload...which in the end is the better method...put it back togeter with the locktite, then measure torque to rotate...with used bearings, and the carrier and everything else installed, a good number should be anywhere from 17-31 inch pounds to rotate the pinion...and that's while it's rotating, not what it takes to start it rotating.....just go ahead and put 'er back together, start tightening the nut down until there is no play in the pinion at all, then slowly start adding a little at a time until you have the recommended torque to rotate....it shouldn't rotate easily, it should take a fair amount of force to rotate it, not a ton, but a good grasp and turn with the hand is required....hope this helps you outLast edited by RedneckJeep; 04-27-2009 at 04:09 AM.
04-26-2009, 06:11 PM
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Thanks for the Additional Information
Hi You'All,
Thanks for the additional information.
I suppose I am starting to feel more comfortable, too, with re-attaching the pinion nuts. It does make sense that it would be pretty unlikely (maybe even impossible) to crush the sleeve any more that it is already crushed.
I like the idea of measuring the torque, too; but, I have read some write-ups that say that rotation torque is used during the initial set-up with the ring and pinion not connected to the axles. I would think, though, that measuring the rotational torque before and after, with the axles installed, would still be a good reference point. Maybe I'm not looking at all the facts, though.
I am curious, though, about the comment regarding not using red Loctite. I know the pinion nut is a lock nut; but, almost everyone that I have heard from suggests using red Loctite. Was the person quoted in one of the posts basing his opinon on using new pinion nuts?
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
Thanks for the additional information.
I suppose I am starting to feel more comfortable, too, with re-attaching the pinion nuts. It does make sense that it would be pretty unlikely (maybe even impossible) to crush the sleeve any more that it is already crushed.
I like the idea of measuring the torque, too; but, I have read some write-ups that say that rotation torque is used during the initial set-up with the ring and pinion not connected to the axles. I would think, though, that measuring the rotational torque before and after, with the axles installed, would still be a good reference point. Maybe I'm not looking at all the facts, though.
I am curious, though, about the comment regarding not using red Loctite. I know the pinion nut is a lock nut; but, almost everyone that I have heard from suggests using red Loctite. Was the person quoted in one of the posts basing his opinon on using new pinion nuts?
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
04-26-2009, 06:16 PM
#18
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04-26-2009, 06:33 PM
#19
JK Super Freak
I completely agree with the post that a 1/2" impact will not produce anywhere near the torque required to crush a sleeve...it won't.
I'm not a professional at all...redneck has a hell of alot more knowledge on this stuff than I...it's just everything I read stated that when you remove the pinion nut with a crush sleeve setup, all pinion bearing preload will be reduced to zero....and regardless of whether or not you torque the nut to 165 ft/lbs, or 250 ft/lbs there will be no preload placed on the pinion bearings until they have been re-compressed into their races the desired amount...which is what the sleeve helps determine and maintain....I suppose so long as the bearings make contact with the collar as they did prior to disassembly that preload on the bearings should be as it was prior to disasembly....
Again...I've only done this once to my front and rear diff...not a pro at all
Maybe I'm interpreting the process wrong?? But re-torquing a pinion nut to a pre-determined torque setting is for a pinion setup which uses shims instead of a crush collar to maintain pinion bearing preload???
I'm not a professional at all...redneck has a hell of alot more knowledge on this stuff than I...it's just everything I read stated that when you remove the pinion nut with a crush sleeve setup, all pinion bearing preload will be reduced to zero....and regardless of whether or not you torque the nut to 165 ft/lbs, or 250 ft/lbs there will be no preload placed on the pinion bearings until they have been re-compressed into their races the desired amount...which is what the sleeve helps determine and maintain....I suppose so long as the bearings make contact with the collar as they did prior to disassembly that preload on the bearings should be as it was prior to disasembly....
Again...I've only done this once to my front and rear diff...not a pro at all
Maybe I'm interpreting the process wrong?? But re-torquing a pinion nut to a pre-determined torque setting is for a pinion setup which uses shims instead of a crush collar to maintain pinion bearing preload???
04-26-2009, 06:42 PM
#20
JK Super Freak
I'd say you nailed it in regards to the pinion nut as well...it really recommended that you just use a new onein which case you don't need the locktite (doesn't hurt), but I'm sure it will hold with generous amount of locktite on the old one....
in the end...take what you will out of this