rubi3

Hey all, I took the Jeep in for an alignment this Saturday just to get everything checked out and tweaked. After looking at things they basically said it pretty much looked good except for my toe, which they adjusted. I had read about the DIY process from the write-ups and knew I could set that myself, but for $40 I figured I'd get it checked out by a shop and to get full readings on everything.

My caster was set **close** to what I thought it was, since I had adjusted it a few weeks prior. I was trying to get it up to about 7 degrees and it was 6 or 6.1 on the left and 6.7 on the right.

My questions are this:

1. If I get both caster angles closer to the same, like both at almost 7, will I notice a difference?
2. Does everything else look good? There are many things on here that I don't know about.

I'd REALLY like to get the Jeep dialed in as close to perfect as possible. I realize that with a lift, 35's, etc. it's going to drive different. I just see these countless posts about people saying how their post-lifted Jeeps ride just as good, if not better, than stock, and I am NOT there. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have:
- a TF 2.5" coil lift 4 door version on my 2 door (basically, a 3" kit that got me roughly 3.5")
- 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers
- TF front and rear adjustable track bars
- TF front adjustable LCAs
- TF rear adjustable UCAs

The results:

[table="class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]Primary Angles[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Front[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Initial[/td]
[td]Specs[/td]
[td]Final[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Caster[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]6.1[/td]
[td]3.2 - 5.2[/td]
[td]6.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]6.7[/td]
[td]3.4 - 5.4[/td]
[td]6.7[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Camber[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[td]-0.6 - 0.1[/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]-0.6[/td]
[td]-0.6 - 0.1[/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Toe[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]0.08[/td]
[td]0.09 - 0.12[/td]
[td]0.10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]0.04[/td]
[td]0.09 - 0.12[/td]
[td]0.09[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]0.12[/td]
[td]0.17 - 0.23[/td]
[td]0.19[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Rear[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Camber[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]-0.5 - 0.0[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]-0.6[/td]
[td]-0.5 - 0.0[/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Toe[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]-0.15[/td]
[td]0.00 - 0.25[/td]
[td]0.12[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]0.23[/td]
[td]0.00 - 0.25[/td]
[td]0.23[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]0.08[/td]
[td]0.00 - 0.50[/td]
[td]0.35[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Thrust Angle[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]0.2[/td]
[td]0.3[/td]
[td]0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

[table="class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]Secondary Angles[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]Initial[/td]
[td]Final[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]SAI[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]13.5[/td]
[td]13.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Included Angle[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]9.8[/td]
[td]9.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]12.9[/td]
[td]13.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Toe Out On Turns[/td]
[td]Left[/td]
[td]1.4[/td]
[td]1.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Right[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Setback[/td]
[td]Front[/td]
[td]-0.9[/td]
[td]-0.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]Rear[/td]
[td]-0.4[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Track Width Diff[/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]-0.1[/td]
[td]-0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Wheel Base Diff [/td]
[td] [/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[td]-0.6[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

wayoflife

your jeep has a solid front axle and technically, there really isn't a whole lot of adjustment you can do to your caster. any changes to it you can make will be minute at best and will not make much of a difference if any.

it looks like you have a bit of camber on your wheels, nothing major but, if you don't already have c-gussets installed, i would get some to help prevent any more camber being added.

with just 2.5" of lift, there should have been NO need for a toe-in adjustment or, at least so long as your tie-rod wasn't bent from a trail hit.

rubi3

Actually, it did seem that I almost got about 4" total out of my kit, when it was all said and done. The front was measuring at about a solid 4" and the rear was just under that. I've since added a PSC front bumper, but I don't think it sank down too much.

The various write-ups I read on project-jk seemed to indicate that for a 3" lift you'd want 7-8 degrees of positive caster. With my adjustable front LCAs I figured I could get pretty close to that. I was shooting for 7 degrees and thought I was closed based on the magnetic angle finder. It was only at the shop that I saw I was more like 6.1/6.0 and 6.7. I figure if I could get both up at 7 it may drive a little better.

Obviously costs can vary based on where you are, but total ballpark what would c-gussets run for installation?

Also, I have been playing with the steering wheel to get it perfectly centered and am finding it hard to get it dead on. I realize it can take many tries, but I'm wondering if you notice any drivability differences with it being slightly off vs. dead on. Or, is it more just an annoyance to look at?

Thanks for your input by the way, it's much appreciated!

wayoflife

if you are saying this in regards to your toe, the amount of lift you have will have no effect on it due to it's design.

all solid axles will have a caster measurement that is slightly off one side to the other. depending on who you talk to, this is done to help address the crown you see on most roads. when doing a shadetree caster check, i typically only work off the pinion or, just off of one side to get my readings. plus or minus a point degree won't make that much of a difference. now, the more caster you add, the better your jeep will handle but, it will also make the risk of driveline vibrations greater and, put more stress on your joints. over the years, i have found that you should try not to exceed +6° or go lower than +4°.

most shops will probably charge you about $200 or so to weld them on.

no, you should feel no drivablitly differences if your steering wheel is a bit off. if it's off, the worst that will happen is that your traction control system will start to kick off and flash lights on your dash.

if you're still having handling issues, i would start by making sure you do not have too much air in your tires. being that you have 35's, you should be running them at about 30 psi at most. also, if you really have as much as 4" of lift up front, your steering geometry will be way off and i would recommend that you install a track bar relocation kit/draglink flip like the kind off road evolution makes. this will help restore your geometry to being closer to stock and that will help out a lot too.

rubi3

Thanks again for the advice! Gotta get some more weight on the front to bring it down a bit. Good excuse to buy that winch

And as far as the tires go, I've been running them at 30 psi. I suppose I could try them a bit lower also, as you suggested.

wayoflife

if i could guess, a lot of what you're not likely is being caused by your front end being so high.

ronjenx

I have not seen any evidence of this.
The caster specification for the JK is 4.2° ± 0.5° on both sides, with a max difference of 0.65°.
That sounds like they want them pretty close to the same.

Mine are both at 4.3°, and it handles road crown just fine.

wayoflife

funny, i've checked a lot of axles for caster and have always seen a difference from one side to another. i have a slight difference even on mine as well. who knows, maybe i'm doing something wrong as far as the crown thing goes, like i said, it all depends on who you talk to and, not something i'd be willing to defend as i really don't know for sure.

ronjenx

I've seen it alot, too. Probably due to lack of careful setup when welding the C's on.
It's next to impossible to get a good reading without it being on an alignment rack.

Thinking about it a little, I can't come up with a reason a difference in caster would compensate for road crown. Caster just applies a force to return the wheel to straight relative to direction of movement.

wayoflife

you know, you could be right and i agree, without checking it on an alignment rack, it's pretty hard to get a really good reading.

as far as the crown thing goes, i had edited my last post to say it's not something i'd be willing to defend.