Heavy Weight JKU
12-07-2019, 12:16 AM
#21
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Sixty4x4- Great info, and input. Thank you! Here in MD though, I have to pass smog. Unfortunately, the transmission is integrated into the emissions set up for Gen 4 and 5 GM engines. So no Jeep transmissions for me. Also- I've checked w/all the conversion companies and NONE of them currently make a adapter to fit the Rubi t-case to a GM transmission. It's that oddball 23 spline input shaft (or output shaft?) that the Rubi uses. I'm not too concerned with losing the Rubi t-case, because as you said, with the gearing of the GM trans and the gearing of the standard JK t-case is lower than 4:1 anyway. It's just the potential added expense. I do like the GM set up more, and was leaning that way for a while- but that $10k+ USD entry fee hurts my soul!! I could get a less expensive version of the kit and piece it together, but the "ease of install" looks better with the all-inclusive kit. No hunting around for bits and pieces, and everything is engineered to work together.
yaak- Again, good points... The only issue I have with a Hemi swap is that cam and lifter issue I keep seeing with the 5.7. It's an expensive repair, and I'm not sure I want to risk it. However, as you said, a Hemi would probably be better for resale value. Also, the 5.7 (maybe bigger?) Hemi is in other jeep products (why it never made it into a Wrangler is beyond me!). Overall, a Hemi swap is a touch cheaper to do. A 5.7L Hemi swap can also be done with a 50 state legal CARB certification...
Both swaps are excellent ways to solve a heavy jeep issue. At this point, I'm just not sure which way I want to go, with regard to a V8 swap.
yaak- Again, good points... The only issue I have with a Hemi swap is that cam and lifter issue I keep seeing with the 5.7. It's an expensive repair, and I'm not sure I want to risk it. However, as you said, a Hemi would probably be better for resale value. Also, the 5.7 (maybe bigger?) Hemi is in other jeep products (why it never made it into a Wrangler is beyond me!). Overall, a Hemi swap is a touch cheaper to do. A 5.7L Hemi swap can also be done with a 50 state legal CARB certification...
Both swaps are excellent ways to solve a heavy jeep issue. At this point, I'm just not sure which way I want to go, with regard to a V8 swap.
09-23-2020, 05:05 AM
#22
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Not sure if you can "necro post" on your own post... Anyhoo, This jeep build has been through so many iterations... I've been trying to keep the overall weight down, I'm still struggling with the V8 vs. SC debate, and also really thinking hard on how this jeep will actually be used. For now, here's where I'm at:
- Get a Trans cooler, as I have a 07. It has a "transmission cooler" from the factory, but as I've been reading, it's not too effective. Now, 95% of my driving for the past 2 years (nearly) has been mostly DD stuff, with the occasional long road trip (6-13 hours of highway driving). Most of my "offroading" has been simply trail runs. Nothing crazy though. So I haven't experienced (knock on wood) a severely over-heated transmission, or wonky shifting due to heat (that gear hunting on the highway though... Jeeze!!) I feel that a aftermarket trans cooler is cheap insurance (as in, cheaper than a new trans)
- My lift idea is as follows, input is welcome:
Rock Krawler "Stock Mod" 2.5" kit with Rancho 5000x shocks, Metal Cloak Pro'linement brackets, Urethane control arm bushings, Metal Cloak Duroflex axle bushings kit (for front, includes a weld-on gusset), TeraFlex HD ball joints... I'm also going to add some simple control arm skid plates (for the mounting points) and a C gusset kit. I'm only running 33" tires, and to me the skid plates and C gussets are simply cheap insurance. Same with that Duroflex bushing stuff- it reinforces the right side upper control arm mount, and it makes maintenance easier. Plus they're rebuildable. Not sure (I'm asking- should I?) if I should do adjustable rear upper control arms? Again, to simplify alignment, and to ensure maximum life from parts because they're all playing nice and everyone (the parts I mean) likes the angles...
Other big ticket items:
- Ace Engineering "Stand Alone" rear tire carrier
- Barnes belly skid kit w/a new HD crossmember
- Motobilt Rear Frame Chop bumper (I'm never towing anything, and the departure angle is better)
- GenRight aluminium front bumper
With regard to the SC vs. V8 struggle... I've been watching a LOT of youtube vids by "The Road Chose Me" (TRCM). The guy took a JKU around Africa (54,000 miles, 35 countries). His vehicle was mostly stock, with regard to the drivetrain and suspension (though he did install a 2.5" lift). He makes a LOT of valid points about cost (of upgrades) vs. need, cost/ease of maintenance and securing replacement parts, etc. Looking at what he was able to accomplish with his vehicle, I'm really leaning towards just doing the transmission cooler; I've already got a tuner, so I'm really considering not doing either a SC or a V8 at all... Hence my quest to keep the JKU as light as possible (or is feasible). TRCM had a much heavier vehicle than I'm planning on driving (Ursa Minor top, water tank, AEV steel bumpers, Titan spare tire fuel tank, 4 full doors), and he didn't use a SC or swapped in a V8... He's still driving the JKU today.
So for the ease (and cost) of maintenance, plus initial costs (let alone cost over time) of either the SC or V8 swap, I'm just keeping everything as the factory did it, with regard to the drivetrain. The suspension will just be modified stock. I'm only modifying things because I consider the upgrades/changes are worthwhile due to (or perceived) ease of maintenance and function, or a extension of what the factory did (like with the case of the belly skids and crossmember from Barnes- or the corrected front control arm brackets from Metal Cloak).
Questions, comments, concerns are always welcome!
- Get a Trans cooler, as I have a 07. It has a "transmission cooler" from the factory, but as I've been reading, it's not too effective. Now, 95% of my driving for the past 2 years (nearly) has been mostly DD stuff, with the occasional long road trip (6-13 hours of highway driving). Most of my "offroading" has been simply trail runs. Nothing crazy though. So I haven't experienced (knock on wood) a severely over-heated transmission, or wonky shifting due to heat (that gear hunting on the highway though... Jeeze!!) I feel that a aftermarket trans cooler is cheap insurance (as in, cheaper than a new trans)
- My lift idea is as follows, input is welcome:
Rock Krawler "Stock Mod" 2.5" kit with Rancho 5000x shocks, Metal Cloak Pro'linement brackets, Urethane control arm bushings, Metal Cloak Duroflex axle bushings kit (for front, includes a weld-on gusset), TeraFlex HD ball joints... I'm also going to add some simple control arm skid plates (for the mounting points) and a C gusset kit. I'm only running 33" tires, and to me the skid plates and C gussets are simply cheap insurance. Same with that Duroflex bushing stuff- it reinforces the right side upper control arm mount, and it makes maintenance easier. Plus they're rebuildable. Not sure (I'm asking- should I?) if I should do adjustable rear upper control arms? Again, to simplify alignment, and to ensure maximum life from parts because they're all playing nice and everyone (the parts I mean) likes the angles...
Other big ticket items:
- Ace Engineering "Stand Alone" rear tire carrier
- Barnes belly skid kit w/a new HD crossmember
- Motobilt Rear Frame Chop bumper (I'm never towing anything, and the departure angle is better)
- GenRight aluminium front bumper
With regard to the SC vs. V8 struggle... I've been watching a LOT of youtube vids by "The Road Chose Me" (TRCM). The guy took a JKU around Africa (54,000 miles, 35 countries). His vehicle was mostly stock, with regard to the drivetrain and suspension (though he did install a 2.5" lift). He makes a LOT of valid points about cost (of upgrades) vs. need, cost/ease of maintenance and securing replacement parts, etc. Looking at what he was able to accomplish with his vehicle, I'm really leaning towards just doing the transmission cooler; I've already got a tuner, so I'm really considering not doing either a SC or a V8 at all... Hence my quest to keep the JKU as light as possible (or is feasible). TRCM had a much heavier vehicle than I'm planning on driving (Ursa Minor top, water tank, AEV steel bumpers, Titan spare tire fuel tank, 4 full doors), and he didn't use a SC or swapped in a V8... He's still driving the JKU today.
So for the ease (and cost) of maintenance, plus initial costs (let alone cost over time) of either the SC or V8 swap, I'm just keeping everything as the factory did it, with regard to the drivetrain. The suspension will just be modified stock. I'm only modifying things because I consider the upgrades/changes are worthwhile due to (or perceived) ease of maintenance and function, or a extension of what the factory did (like with the case of the belly skids and crossmember from Barnes- or the corrected front control arm brackets from Metal Cloak).
Questions, comments, concerns are always welcome!
Last edited by Yemx; 09-23-2020 at 05:16 AM.
09-23-2020, 04:06 PM
#23
JK Newbie
Heavy weight
I've been trying to search for threads on this, but am having a hard time- or perhaps I'm wording the search wrong. Anyhoo, what is considered to be a "heavy" jeep? I have an 07 JKUR automatic, and the planned additions are:
- JCR Dagger frame chop front bumper (47 lbs)
- Warn 9.5xp winch (68 lbs w/100' synthetic rope)
- Motobilt frame chop rear bumper (advertised as 73 lbs, but this kit includes a new rear crossmember. I'd say, actual weight added would be 55 lbs?)
- Genright corner armor (28 lbs for both sides)
- Skid plates (Not sure- weight not advertised anywhere. No additional gas tank skid plate)
- Poison Spyder rocker armor (37 lbs for both sides?)
- Factory Rubicon rock rails (85 lbs for both sides?)
- Genright Aluminium cage-type swing out tire carrier (21 lbs)
- MCE fenders (about 20 lbs for all 4)
- Extended range fuel tank (68 lbs dry)
- Hard top (maybe 200 lbs?)
For now I'm going to run the factory Moab wheels with spacers. Not sure if/when I'm going to swap wheels, so figure about 90 lbs with 35" KO2's for each wheel/tire. I will be installing 5.13 gears, and I will be adding a intercooled Ripp SC down the road.
I'm really more concerned with the suspension at this point- I'll be running OME medium (or no load?) rate springs- 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear with Rocksport shocks. I don't want to go any higher. Do y'all think this load-out will be too much (excessive spring sag) for the spring/shock combo? I won't be towing anything, as the frame chop rear bumper eliminates the tow hitch...
- JCR Dagger frame chop front bumper (47 lbs)
- Warn 9.5xp winch (68 lbs w/100' synthetic rope)
- Motobilt frame chop rear bumper (advertised as 73 lbs, but this kit includes a new rear crossmember. I'd say, actual weight added would be 55 lbs?)
- Genright corner armor (28 lbs for both sides)
- Skid plates (Not sure- weight not advertised anywhere. No additional gas tank skid plate)
- Poison Spyder rocker armor (37 lbs for both sides?)
- Factory Rubicon rock rails (85 lbs for both sides?)
- Genright Aluminium cage-type swing out tire carrier (21 lbs)
- MCE fenders (about 20 lbs for all 4)
- Extended range fuel tank (68 lbs dry)
- Hard top (maybe 200 lbs?)
For now I'm going to run the factory Moab wheels with spacers. Not sure if/when I'm going to swap wheels, so figure about 90 lbs with 35" KO2's for each wheel/tire. I will be installing 5.13 gears, and I will be adding a intercooled Ripp SC down the road.
I'm really more concerned with the suspension at this point- I'll be running OME medium (or no load?) rate springs- 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear with Rocksport shocks. I don't want to go any higher. Do y'all think this load-out will be too much (excessive spring sag) for the spring/shock combo? I won't be towing anything, as the frame chop rear bumper eliminates the tow hitch...
09-24-2020, 10:58 AM
#24
Super Moderator
I'm curious why you chose the RK stock mod over something that Metalcloak offers. Having had both, I can say which I prefer and which is still on my jeep. I'm also curious about your ACE tire carrier- if you're looking to cut weight, why not consider an integrated hinge/ carrier solution? Metalcloak, MorRyde, Teraflex, and a few others have options there that will hold up and help shave weight.
09-24-2020, 06:39 PM
#25
Super Moderator
Yaak/Yemx. Here is an update on my conversion. Not sure if it is a hijack but sorry if it is;
The 5.3 spins to 5600 in a heartbeat in a few seconds in 1-5th gear. Will accelerate on freeway from 25-68mph in about 4.5 seconds. That 8 speed transmission is great and uses 1-5 gears even in the up to 30mph range. Offroad in Low range I regularly use 1st to 4th crawling and general difficult wheeling. Changes gear in mudholes in auto L and never never even thinks about stalling. Having a V8 / V8 torque converter in a 6 cylinder vehicle makes for creeping without stopping at rock ledges etc. and is in fact a better situation than an auto V6 by a factor of many times over. Gas mileage so far without further tuning on MAF is about 10% better than a 3.6 compared to my sons JKUR 2016.
TheMC arms are necessary so is the MC or high quality lift to keep the Jeep level with out using levelers. The C of G moves slightly aft as the TC is about 3-3.5" further to the rear. New driveshafts are required as you cannot shorten the stockers and don't want to. I now have about 4500kms on the conversion with 5 offroad day or weekend trips. No issues other than today was playing with JScan and it refused to start. Turned out to be coincidence as it was the Motech ignition relay that keeps getting bent by mechanics leaning over it. Wiggled it and was good so now it is fixed properly. The Jeep can beat most pickups off the line and regularly shuts down SUVs. It is a pleasure to drive now and is how Jeep should have made it. This conversion requires one buy HP Tuners, access credits 4 x $50, and learn how to use it. The 4 credits are 2 for Jeep ECU and 2 for Chev. If I go new tires I will only go 35" on the Rubi diffs and change to 4.56 gears only. Do I regret anything about doing this - yes, I should have done it sooner. If I buy another newer Jeep I will go LT (not LS) 6.2 / 10 speed auto. Mind you I built a 2020 JL Diesel Sport JKU which has the big diffs and it was loaded with leather, heated steering wheel, Nav etc etc for $54k CDN so makes modifying one very difficult choice and Bronco coming may drive Jeep to get the 5.7 into theirs.
Enjoy
The 5.3 spins to 5600 in a heartbeat in a few seconds in 1-5th gear. Will accelerate on freeway from 25-68mph in about 4.5 seconds. That 8 speed transmission is great and uses 1-5 gears even in the up to 30mph range. Offroad in Low range I regularly use 1st to 4th crawling and general difficult wheeling. Changes gear in mudholes in auto L and never never even thinks about stalling. Having a V8 / V8 torque converter in a 6 cylinder vehicle makes for creeping without stopping at rock ledges etc. and is in fact a better situation than an auto V6 by a factor of many times over. Gas mileage so far without further tuning on MAF is about 10% better than a 3.6 compared to my sons JKUR 2016.
TheMC arms are necessary so is the MC or high quality lift to keep the Jeep level with out using levelers. The C of G moves slightly aft as the TC is about 3-3.5" further to the rear. New driveshafts are required as you cannot shorten the stockers and don't want to. I now have about 4500kms on the conversion with 5 offroad day or weekend trips. No issues other than today was playing with JScan and it refused to start. Turned out to be coincidence as it was the Motech ignition relay that keeps getting bent by mechanics leaning over it. Wiggled it and was good so now it is fixed properly. The Jeep can beat most pickups off the line and regularly shuts down SUVs. It is a pleasure to drive now and is how Jeep should have made it. This conversion requires one buy HP Tuners, access credits 4 x $50, and learn how to use it. The 4 credits are 2 for Jeep ECU and 2 for Chev. If I go new tires I will only go 35" on the Rubi diffs and change to 4.56 gears only. Do I regret anything about doing this - yes, I should have done it sooner. If I buy another newer Jeep I will go LT (not LS) 6.2 / 10 speed auto. Mind you I built a 2020 JL Diesel Sport JKU which has the big diffs and it was loaded with leather, heated steering wheel, Nav etc etc for $54k CDN so makes modifying one very difficult choice and Bronco coming may drive Jeep to get the 5.7 into theirs.
Enjoy
Last edited by Sixty4x4; 09-24-2020 at 06:42 PM.
09-16-2024, 06:30 AM
#27
JK Jedi
since in Houston i bet there is a stone/materials business somewhat around you. they almost always have a scale and i bet if you ask nicely they'd let you roll onto it for free. I wouldn't count on it being as calibrated as a CAT scale at a truckstop, but it is less awkward and close enough. 7k lbs would be a damn heavy rig, fully armored, full cage, D60s and 40s I'd bet to get around that. would be curious though if you did get it weigh to see the outcome with some pics/specs. i should weigh mine again....it's been a while. i don't think i had full float reat 60 or fenders when i last weighed.