Great Mod for daily driving and Intermediate to Intermediate + off roading.
03-23-2018 | 11:00 AM
#1
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 9
From: Tijeras, NM
Great Mod for daily driving and Intermediate to Intermediate + off roading.
So you want to go do the intermediate trails with your local club but you don't want to ruin the feel of your Daily driver stock Jeep and you don't want to spent 15k in upgrades? You can turn a wrench and connect a wire but don't have the time or knowledge to do a lift kit that will ride the way you want.
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
03-23-2018 | 02:38 PM
#2
JK Jedi
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,222
Likes: 367
From: Southwest Reno, NV
You are not getting lift but height with the tire/spacer combo. Going from 31" to 35" tires (true size) then you add 2" of height. Your 2" coil spacers will give you 2" of lift minus any sag you get from armor. Personally I would recommend minimal armor unless you are in a place doing a lot of rock crawling or in tight wooded trails. Wheelers perform better the lighter they are and reduces wear and tear on stuff like unit bearings and ball joints. Good points on the rubicon model and 35's as the low transfer case will be a good fit off road and you still get decent performance and mpg on the road. Swapping wheels can be a pain if you wheel a lot. Without getting adjustable track bars the only alignment you can do is toe in and to set the steering wheel back to center which are both pretty easy to do without paying for an alignment. 2007-2011 3.8 with 6 speed handle 35's fine with 4.10 gears.
03-24-2018 | 01:20 PM
#3
JK Freak
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 712
Likes: 67
From: McLean, VA
So you want to go do the intermediate trails with your local club but you don't want to ruin the feel of your Daily driver stock Jeep and you don't want to spent 15k in upgrades? You can turn a wrench and connect a wire but don't have the time or knowledge to do a lift kit that will ride the way you want.
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
Too subjective. My friend thinks his 3.8 with 4:10's on 37's is "totally fine." I think otherwise. My 3.6 with 4:56 is ok with 35's, but I KNOW I want 4:88's when I mount my 37's. Plenty of gear ratio/tire size charts available with a quick Google search.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
Honestly, the stock JK skids aren't bad enough to warrant spending all that money. I 100% agree that beefier differential covers should be added IF the Jeep will see rocks/trails tougher than a blue. Oil pan skid is also good to have for peace of mind. Sliders, again, depends on how the Jeep will be used. I needed ones that welded to my frame, because I run trails with large rocks and find myself constantly saving my sheet metal on them (and also needing a repaint after every wheeling trip). Your average Joe on here who runs fire roads, greens, and maybe blues will be OK with any slider on the market (body mounted included).
The OEM gas tank skid is fine, and the stupidly expensive Synergy replacement is not needed. Mine is completely beat and my gas tank currently holds 1 gallon less than full, but I would say it's done it's job. My gas tank is still fine. All I need to do is drop it and beat it back flat with a BFH if I feel like it. If you feel like you need protection, then the (I can't believe I'm about to say this manufacturers name) Rough Country or Rubicon Express gas tank skids are actually fantastic and cost around $140 versus the $600 Synergy option.
The stock gas tank and transfer case skid do a hell of a job...and they're FREE. Transmission skid can be justified if you run some gnarly red trails (such as Rock Creek at Rausch), but for the most part...is not needed.
I hate to mention his name here, but Eddie has really showed us that the OEM skids are fine and more than adequate...even on some of the toughest trails out west. No need to spend all that money on skids that you don't need, but most importantly all that weight will impact performance.
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
Yes, you should get an AEV pro cal to program your new tire size (and gear ratio if you plan on regearing). This is 100% needed with the autos. Manual guys, we don't need these, but if you can't afford $120 to have a properly calibrated speedo...then you shouldn't be doing any mods and you should be fully prepared to pay that $120 in speeding tickets later.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
Nah, you don't need to do that. If you're stock height, yes. If not, then no. Proper bumpstops will do the same job, or you can take the time to cut your stock fenders flat, and line the edges with edge trim.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
No, you should DEFINITELY be weight conscious. This is especially true if you plan on not regearing. This is the biggest mistake every rookie with a new Jeep makes. This single handedly effects your performance more than anything else. Don't go slap 120+ pound bumpers on. Do some research. The frame chop bumpers not only look great, but after you cut away the old material it'll barely add weight versus stock. Frame chop bumpers do not sacrifice any strength or structural integrity; You're replacing everything you cut away with beefier 3/16" or 1/4" steel.
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
The spacers should not be added until you let the coils settle. I do not need ANY spacers front or rear with my setup, and my Warn PowerPlant weighs more than the average winch. A rear winch is absolutely not needed unless your Jeep is a dedicated rock crawler/trailer queen that never sees street use.
A shop or "professional" does not need to install spacers, a monkey with a wrench could do it on his Sunday or Saturday morning. You state in your first few sentences that your crowd is people who can "turn a wrench" yet you're telling them to go have a shop install their spacers? Wut. Also WUT on not aligning your steering wheel? It's 2 15mm nuts and a turn buckle. It takes at most 10 minutes alone, 5 minutes with a buddy.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
I've never heard of someone using a spacer kit to (I'm assuming) lower the sway bar from the frame? The rears can be used up front if you're tight on money; however, adjustable links are relatively cheap and will be much better.
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Unless you added adjustable control arms, you can align everything at home with a tape measure. You can set your own toe-in, and align your axles (assuming you have adjustable track bars) without spending $100+ on an alignment. If you've added adjustable control arms in an attempt to correct your caster, then yes...get an alignment and let them dial it in. You can do the rear arms yourself: the lowers place the axle in the wheel well, and the tops are used to adjust your pinion angle (this can be eyeballed).
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
Too subjective. My friend thinks his 3.8 with 4:10's on 37's is "totally fine." I think otherwise. My 3.6 with 4:56 is ok with 35's, but I KNOW I want 4:88's when I mount my 37's. Plenty of gear ratio/tire size charts available with a quick Google search.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
Honestly, the stock JK skids aren't bad enough to warrant spending all that money. I 100% agree that beefier differential covers should be added IF the Jeep will see rocks/trails tougher than a blue. Oil pan skid is also good to have for peace of mind. Sliders, again, depends on how the Jeep will be used. I needed ones that welded to my frame, because I run trails with large rocks and find myself constantly saving my sheet metal on them (and also needing a repaint after every wheeling trip). Your average Joe on here who runs fire roads, greens, and maybe blues will be OK with any slider on the market (body mounted included).
The OEM gas tank skid is fine, and the stupidly expensive Synergy replacement is not needed. Mine is completely beat and my gas tank currently holds 1 gallon less than full, but I would say it's done it's job. My gas tank is still fine. All I need to do is drop it and beat it back flat with a BFH if I feel like it. If you feel like you need protection, then the (I can't believe I'm about to say this manufacturers name) Rough Country or Rubicon Express gas tank skids are actually fantastic and cost around $140 versus the $600 Synergy option.
The stock gas tank and transfer case skid do a hell of a job...and they're FREE. Transmission skid can be justified if you run some gnarly red trails (such as Rock Creek at Rausch), but for the most part...is not needed.
I hate to mention his name here, but Eddie has really showed us that the OEM skids are fine and more than adequate...even on some of the toughest trails out west. No need to spend all that money on skids that you don't need, but most importantly all that weight will impact performance.
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
Yes, you should get an AEV pro cal to program your new tire size (and gear ratio if you plan on regearing). This is 100% needed with the autos. Manual guys, we don't need these, but if you can't afford $120 to have a properly calibrated speedo...then you shouldn't be doing any mods and you should be fully prepared to pay that $120 in speeding tickets later.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
Nah, you don't need to do that. If you're stock height, yes. If not, then no. Proper bumpstops will do the same job, or you can take the time to cut your stock fenders flat, and line the edges with edge trim.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
No, you should DEFINITELY be weight conscious. This is especially true if you plan on not regearing. This is the biggest mistake every rookie with a new Jeep makes. This single handedly effects your performance more than anything else. Don't go slap 120+ pound bumpers on. Do some research. The frame chop bumpers not only look great, but after you cut away the old material it'll barely add weight versus stock. Frame chop bumpers do not sacrifice any strength or structural integrity; You're replacing everything you cut away with beefier 3/16" or 1/4" steel.
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
The spacers should not be added until you let the coils settle. I do not need ANY spacers front or rear with my setup, and my Warn PowerPlant weighs more than the average winch. A rear winch is absolutely not needed unless your Jeep is a dedicated rock crawler/trailer queen that never sees street use.
A shop or "professional" does not need to install spacers, a monkey with a wrench could do it on his Sunday or Saturday morning. You state in your first few sentences that your crowd is people who can "turn a wrench" yet you're telling them to go have a shop install their spacers? Wut. Also WUT on not aligning your steering wheel? It's 2 15mm nuts and a turn buckle. It takes at most 10 minutes alone, 5 minutes with a buddy.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
I've never heard of someone using a spacer kit to (I'm assuming) lower the sway bar from the frame? The rears can be used up front if you're tight on money; however, adjustable links are relatively cheap and will be much better.
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Unless you added adjustable control arms, you can align everything at home with a tape measure. You can set your own toe-in, and align your axles (assuming you have adjustable track bars) without spending $100+ on an alignment. If you've added adjustable control arms in an attempt to correct your caster, then yes...get an alignment and let them dial it in. You can do the rear arms yourself: the lowers place the axle in the wheel well, and the tops are used to adjust your pinion angle (this can be eyeballed).
03-24-2018 | 01:21 PM
#4
JK Freak
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 712
Likes: 67
From: McLean, VA
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
15 psi on the road?? RIP your tread. That's way too low for the street, and still too high for offroading. MT's suck in the snow, so I'm surprised you like them.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
15 psi on the road?? RIP your tread. That's way too low for the street, and still too high for offroading. MT's suck in the snow, so I'm surprised you like them.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
04-02-2018 | 02:29 PM
#5
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 9
From: Tijeras, NM
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
I see your misunderstanding there is a typo it should be "Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (from stock)" Not (front stock) I measured fixed points on the body of the Jeep at each corner to the ground (before and after my mode) with the 2" spaces and 35" tires on to get 4 inches of lift.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
15 psi on the road?? RIP your tread. That's way too low for the street, and still too high for offroading. MT's suck in the snow, so I'm surprised you like them.
I did not say "15 psi on the road" you did. I said "when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS" and 15 psi is less likely to fall off the rim then 10 or lower if you don't have those fancy anti-bead lock things.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
You have missed the point here I only run the 35" tires when wheeling around like 5% of the time. So there is no need to worry about alignment with the 35's
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
I see your misunderstanding there is a typo it should be "Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (from stock)" Not (front stock) I measured fixed points on the body of the Jeep at each corner to the ground (before and after my mode) with the 2" spaces and 35" tires on to get 4 inches of lift.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
15 psi on the road?? RIP your tread. That's way too low for the street, and still too high for offroading. MT's suck in the snow, so I'm surprised you like them.
I did not say "15 psi on the road" you did. I said "when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS" and 15 psi is less likely to fall off the rim then 10 or lower if you don't have those fancy anti-bead lock things.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
You have missed the point here I only run the 35" tires when wheeling around like 5% of the time. So there is no need to worry about alignment with the 35's
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
04-02-2018 | 02:37 PM
#6
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 9
From: Tijeras, NM
A shop or "professional" does not need to install spacers, a monkey with a wrench could do it on his Sunday or Saturday morning. You state in your first few sentences that your crowd is people who can "turn a wrench" yet you're telling them to go have a shop install their spacers? Wut. Also WUT on not aligning your steering wheel? It's 2 15mm nuts and a turn buckle. It takes at most 10 minutes alone, 5 minutes with a buddy.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
04-02-2018 | 04:40 PM
#7
JK Jedi
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 11,007
Likes: 1,954
From: Willow Park, TX
A shop or "professional" does not need to install spacers, a monkey with a wrench could do it on his Sunday or Saturday morning. You state in your first few sentences that your crowd is people who can "turn a wrench" yet you're telling them to go have a shop install their spacers? Wut. Also WUT on not aligning your steering wheel? It's 2 15mm nuts and a turn buckle. It takes at most 10 minutes alone, 5 minutes with a buddy.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
I suggest going to the dealer to get your windshield wipers changed. Could pinch your finger doing that. 
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04-02-2018 | 07:56 PM
#8
JK Freak
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 712
Likes: 67
From: McLean, VA
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
I see your misunderstanding there is a typo it should be "Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (from stock)" Not (front stock) I measured fixed points on the body of the Jeep at each corner to the ground (before and after my mode) with the 2" spaces and 35" tires on to get 4 inches of lift.
Did you measure from the top of the coil perch to the bottom (up front), and from the top of the bumpstop pad to the bumpstop cup (in the rear) and compare it to stock measurements? My "3.5 inch coils" netted 3" of lift up front and right around 4" out back. It's important to measure. At that lift height, I hope you have adjustable arms front and rear, as you DEFINITELY need to correct your rear pinion angle at a minimum. You could also use some caster, as you're probably well under 3 degrees. Hence why it feels flighty. NO DD SHOULD BE LIFTED OVER 2.5 INCHES.
I see your misunderstanding there is a typo it should be "Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (from stock)" Not (front stock) I measured fixed points on the body of the Jeep at each corner to the ground (before and after my mode) with the 2" spaces and 35" tires on to get 4 inches of lift.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
You have missed the point here I only run the 35" tires when wheeling around like 5% of the time. So there is no need to worry about alignment with the 35's
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
Again, you need adjustable control arms. The "slightly off alignment" is because they charged you for an alignment, and quickly adjusted your toe-in. Nothing else was done, I guarantee it.
You have missed the point here I only run the 35" tires when wheeling around like 5% of the time. So there is no need to worry about alignment with the 35's
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
A shop or "professional" does not need to install spacers, a monkey with a wrench could do it on his Sunday or Saturday morning. You state in your first few sentences that your crowd is people who can "turn a wrench" yet you're telling them to go have a shop install their spacers? Wut. Also WUT on not aligning your steering wheel? It's 2 15mm nuts and a turn buckle. It takes at most 10 minutes alone, 5 minutes with a buddy.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
Look Monkey! There is a big difference between turning a wrench and doping axles with needed lifts and risking loosing fingers when a Jeep shop can take the risks and do it very cheaply.
) fingers. I own a set of jack stands and a floor jack...and that's all it takes. Call me a monkey all you want, but I did this for the first time when I was 16 (my last Jeep). I'm 21 now, and have probably dropped and reinstalled my axles well over 10 times. If a 16 year old could manage to do it, I'm sure you can too...no?
Sorry for intruding on your safe-space, I was trying to stop the spread of misinformation and offer some support. Since you're so defensive, I'll stop mollycoddling you: your info sucks. If you spent more time wrenching and less time paying others, you'd probably have a better idea of what you're talking about instead of playing expert.
Have a good day.
04-02-2018 | 09:34 PM
#9
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 154
Likes: 9
From: mesa, az
I will play. My opinion may be different, but it works for me.
As I said, this is my opinion. I probably am able to go higher end than most people, but I really like how much Jeep runs. Something that is not mentioned is to make sure you are able to disconnect your sway bars. That will make a huge difference driving off road, both in ride, and flex. Most of all, just have fun. Find what you like to do. Everyone is different,
So you want to go do the intermediate trails with your local club but you don't want to ruin the feel of your Daily driver stock Jeep and you don't want to spent 15k in upgrades? You can turn a wrench and connect a wire but don't have the time or knowledge to do a lift kit that will ride the way you want.
I have spent considerably more than $15k. There are a lot of things that I have done that I feel are optional, but I really like the harder trails, usually 6 or 7’ on the Moab scale. So far, I have succeeded with minimal damage, and no apparent damage.
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
I have a 2016. Within the first 1000 miles, I had 35” tires and a 3.5” game changer. My previous Jeep had a high end Teraflex. I understand I have to pay to play, but, at this point, with 36,000 miles, I have not had to do ball joints. They are still solid. I switched to 37’s about 6000 miles ago. The 35’s were not shot, but did not give maximum performance, so I bought new tires.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
as with most street driven jeeps, I like to think 8 off road more than most, but in reality, mine is also on the road 99.5% of the time. I do have the option of trailering the Jeep, and if I am traveling more than a few hours away, I take the option, because my truck is more comfortable to drive over long distance, gets the same mileage, and has a ton more power, even with the trailer,
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
I agree that 4.10’s were fine with 35’s. Nit tins of power, but sufficient for what I wanted. I went to 5.13’s when I went to 37’s. For my purposes, I think that gearing is a bit steep. I think I would have liked 4.88’s better, but that is just me.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
I also like the heavier aftermarket skid plates. I have metal cloak, because I like them. I like dropping on a rock, or sliding over a rock, and having absolutely zero worries. The stock skids are likely sufficient, but the heavy skids suit me fine. As for body protection I have the stock enhanced rubi rails. My Jeep was originally a Hard Rock, and it has gradually been changed to where it has very few of the Hard Rock features. That’s what happens when you try and wheel hard. I had to rep,ace the rear HR bumper because it had too much flex when I dropped on rocks. It was going up into the body and was peeling the paint off. I like to keep my stuff as nice as possible. It is really fun to have people think you are crazy for taking a Jeep on a hard trail, and people comment on how it is too nice a Jeep for that trail. It works for me
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
I guess the two sets of tires is personal preference. I don’t want to have to store an extra set, or worry about swapping tires back and forth, maybe I am lazy, but it works for me.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
I went with poison spider fenders. They are not the cheapest option. They do look good. I do like the clearance, and that whole pretty thing works for me. I don’t like the look of cut fenders.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
overall do what you want, because, it is your Jeep. You don’t need to clone anyone else. Just make sure it is paid for
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
if you have high clearance fenders, why do you need spacers? You should get plenty of clearance, and flex. I like flex. Bump stops, spacers, and all that stuff are great, if you need them. However, if a suspension is properly set up, bump stops should be minimal, and spacers should be non existent.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
I have spent considerably more than $15k. There are a lot of things that I have done that I feel are optional, but I really like the harder trails, usually 6 or 7’ on the Moab scale. So far, I have succeeded with minimal damage, and no apparent damage.
History. I have done 2 Jeep JKU mod setups the first with 4in lift kit and big tires all the time. I never got it to feel like the original and this ended up costing me about 1500+ a year in replacement parts maintenance IE: ball joints, tie ends, power steering gear box etc. And I wore out those fancy $600+ rebuild-able ball joints twice and once with the Moog ends. Just driving around town normally.
I have a 2016. Within the first 1000 miles, I had 35” tires and a 3.5” game changer. My previous Jeep had a high end Teraflex. I understand I have to pay to play, but, at this point, with 36,000 miles, I have not had to do ball joints. They are still solid. I switched to 37’s about 6000 miles ago. The 35’s were not shot, but did not give maximum performance, so I bought new tires.
My Jeep is a DD 99.5% of the time but I can do most all the trails in Moab when I want too.
as with most street driven jeeps, I like to think 8 off road more than most, but in reality, mine is also on the road 99.5% of the time. I do have the option of trailering the Jeep, and if I am traveling more than a few hours away, I take the option, because my truck is more comfortable to drive over long distance, gets the same mileage, and has a ton more power, even with the trailer,
Here is what you want to do in this order:
1) Get a Rubicon 2013 or newer with 4:10 gears all around. The 4:10's will handle 35 inch tires anything bigger requires new gears. 2007-2011 engines don't have enough horse power to do much. 2012 had first year engine issues.
I agree that 4.10’s were fine with 35’s. Nit tins of power, but sufficient for what I wanted. I went to 5.13’s when I went to 37’s. For my purposes, I think that gearing is a bit steep. I think I would have liked 4.88’s better, but that is just me.
2) Armor, Armor, Armor: I got this:
Full Synergy armor plates from gas tank to oil pan.
Shield for each Differential.
Slider Step bars that attach to the frame and a couple of inches away from the body. Any armor that attaches to the body is only good for scratches. Anything that takes a good hit like a side bar needs a space between it and the body for give. I know I was T-boned by a large Cadillac once and my bars saved my body. Have a shop install the gas tank armor its worth it.
I also like the heavier aftermarket skid plates. I have metal cloak, because I like them. I like dropping on a rock, or sliding over a rock, and having absolutely zero worries. The stock skids are likely sufficient, but the heavy skids suit me fine. As for body protection I have the stock enhanced rubi rails. My Jeep was originally a Hard Rock, and it has gradually been changed to where it has very few of the Hard Rock features. That’s what happens when you try and wheel hard. I had to rep,ace the rear HR bumper because it had too much flex when I dropped on rocks. It was going up into the body and was peeling the paint off. I like to keep my stuff as nice as possible. It is really fun to have people think you are crazy for taking a Jeep on a hard trail, and people comment on how it is too nice a Jeep for that trail. It works for me
3) 34 or 35 inch tires. Get yourself an extra set of tires and rims with the backspacing you want. (Set aside for off roading only Keep your original tires and rims) If you care about the speedometer reading correctly then get one of those chip programmers to adjust your speed. Other wise use a GPS with speed indicator for correct speed.
NOTE: Going from 32 inch tires to 35 inch tires (3 inch bigger) should net you 1.5 inch of lift. But I got 2.5 inch of lift with my 35 inch Goodyear Kevlars because they keep their roundness better.
I guess the two sets of tires is personal preference. I don’t want to have to store an extra set, or worry about swapping tires back and forth, maybe I am lazy, but it works for me.
4) Fenders if your going to use 35 inch tires you will need to change fenders for ones that have high clearance.
I went with poison spider fenders. They are not the cheapest option. They do look good. I do like the clearance, and that whole pretty thing works for me. I don’t like the look of cut fenders.
5) Now get what you want that's heavy like racks, bumpers, other armor and other accessories.
overall do what you want, because, it is your Jeep. You don’t need to clone anyone else. Just make sure it is paid for
6) Most Bumper weight is in the winch so: Front and rear Winch and spacer decisions (50-80 Lbs for each winch) if your going to run winches then get 2in spring spaces per winch. If not then only get 1 inch spacers. Exception: If your going to run a permanent 200 Lb load in the rear then go with the 2 inch spacers.
(Reason for Spacers Vs a 2 inch lift is at least a $1000 more in cost and your no longer using the stock feel suspension. Spacers will cost $150-$300 Plus install should be another $150-$200) I recommend a synthetic rope for lest weight and less ware and tare on your steering components. I also recommend the Olympic rear smugger bumper and a winch for it, easier to get yourself unstuck.
Have a Jeep shop or other professional install the spacers! Do not align the steering at this time.
if you have high clearance fenders, why do you need spacers? You should get plenty of clearance, and flex. I like flex. Bump stops, spacers, and all that stuff are great, if you need them. However, if a suspension is properly set up, bump stops should be minimal, and spacers should be non existent.
7) Other spacer needs: You will need a spacer Kit for the front sway bar links or some longer links. When installed the sway bar should be level or slightly higher in the rear.
Shock spacers (optional if your really going to flex I don't use them)
8) Now after all the spacers and accessories are installed take the Jeep back to an alignment place and have it aligned with the stock tires. If your not up to doing the sway bar and shock spacers then have the Jeep shop do it before they align it.
Basically with the 35” and spacers on I got a real lift of around 4” (front stock) with one of the best under armor kits out there. And if stock parts ware out they are very cheep to replace compared to aftermarket kits. One of my mechanics told me that driving with large tires and back spacing all the time put tones of extra ware on the system.
So I DD with the stock Robi Tires. They seem to work better in the snow anyway and I live on the side of a mountain. Either set of tires I get a factory style ride all the time and when I deflate the 35”s down to say 15 LBS I get the same cushy ride I got with the 4” lift and 33” tires.
I notice with the 35' tire the alignment is slightly off but not enough to worry about as when I put the 32" back on it goes back to normal and since I only run the 35"'s whey off roading its not a big deal.
My 2 Cents: mods and driving are at your own risk.
04-06-2018 | 10:41 AM
#10
JK Newbie
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I’m hoping to do a 2.5 in AEV lift I’ve purchased the lift kit the geometry correction brackets ready to go seen all the you tube tips now I seem to have run across a need for exhaust spacers give me a break this project has become a real money pit I’m just running ruby up and down the road it’s only seen dirt roads so far so tell me do I really need exhaust spacers please!!!
Last edited by chip maher; 04-06-2018 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Model unlimited 2015