Frustrated after a stupid levelling kit
09-01-2011, 07:18 PM
#1
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Frustrated after a stupid levelling kit
OK.. coles notes version
Installed TF spacer levelling kit, now I have a strange vibration at 80Km per hour. I also have a loose steering and the thing pulls left and right at different times at low speeds. I noticed the passenger side spring is not sitting straight like the driver side... maybe part of the problem? But the sprints are seated correctly in the groove on the bottom.
What I have done:
Balance and alignment - tires could barely be balanced statically, and had no chance dynamically. Could this cause the vibration at high speed?
the Toe was corrected, the caster was at 3.5 and 3.7... just out of spec. Could this cause the wandering?
still pulls at rolling speed.
What I am going to do:
1) I am buying new tires tomorrow.
2) Will loosen and retorque upper and lower control arms (I did NOT do this durning the install) Will shake between loosening and retorquing. DO I need to do the same to the trackbar?
3) I have ordered some Rubi springs for the front... mine are #15 and 16.. the Rubis are #17s.
If none of this works I am going to take everything off, including my spidertrax spacers and see if my ride firms back up.
All of this over a damn 1.5 inch leveling kit.
Installed TF spacer levelling kit, now I have a strange vibration at 80Km per hour. I also have a loose steering and the thing pulls left and right at different times at low speeds. I noticed the passenger side spring is not sitting straight like the driver side... maybe part of the problem? But the sprints are seated correctly in the groove on the bottom.
What I have done:
Balance and alignment - tires could barely be balanced statically, and had no chance dynamically. Could this cause the vibration at high speed?
the Toe was corrected, the caster was at 3.5 and 3.7... just out of spec. Could this cause the wandering?
still pulls at rolling speed.
What I am going to do:
1) I am buying new tires tomorrow.
2) Will loosen and retorque upper and lower control arms (I did NOT do this durning the install) Will shake between loosening and retorquing. DO I need to do the same to the trackbar?
3) I have ordered some Rubi springs for the front... mine are #15 and 16.. the Rubis are #17s.
If none of this works I am going to take everything off, including my spidertrax spacers and see if my ride firms back up.
All of this over a damn 1.5 inch leveling kit.
09-01-2011, 07:31 PM
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All of your symptoms have nothing to do with the TF leveling kit. Did you have the same problems before? I've done several of those TF kits and they are basically stock in/stock out.
09-01-2011, 07:37 PM
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I know what I am saying up above makes no sense, but it is true.
Maybe I had an issue before, but lifting the front end up 2" just changed some already bad geometry. who knows...
I am so frustrated... maybe with the new tires things will be better.
09-01-2011, 07:43 PM
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Did you do anything to correct your front trac bar? After your front spacer install, your front track (left/right of your axle) is going to be off a bit towards your drivers side. 1.5-2" isn't much though and shouldn't have an effect on your driveability, but could explain your spring issue.
One more thing. Did you tighten/torque everthing AFTER weight of Jeep was on the ground?
What tires are you running? Curious to see if getting the new ones helps.
One more thing. Did you tighten/torque everthing AFTER weight of Jeep was on the ground?
What tires are you running? Curious to see if getting the new ones helps.
09-01-2011, 07:55 PM
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If you replace the spings then make sure you get the matching shocks for them also. Otherwise, the springs will overpower the shocks.
I'm just saying that same TF kit you installed, that I've installed on two new Rubicons (all new parts) and you couldn't tell the difference after they were installed.
Best of luck. Been there before, it's no fun.
09-02-2011, 03:23 AM
#7
JK Jedi Master
1. As you propose, you need to loosen the control arms and trackbar and tighten everything back down under normal weight (on the ground). Make certain you look up and use the correct torque values.
2. Lifting a Jeep will cause the steering to seem a bit flightier. It shouldn't have a pull one way or the other--but the steering will be lighter. The correction for this is a little more caster. However, the best way to fix that is to replace the stock front lower control arms with adjustables. There are also camber bolts, but they are strongly discouraged because they don't allow as much adjustment, and because they can come loose when off-road. Meanwhile, most folks just live with the flightiness until they can afford to replace the LCAs--if ever.
3. After the lift did you recenter your steering wheel? If your steering wheel is not centered when driving straight ahead, then your Jeep will sometimes think you're in a skid and will apply the brakes to get you out of the skid that you're not in. You should know this is happening because of your ESP/TCS lights. It will cause the Jeep to pull one way of the other, and at higher speeds it may even take away throttle control.
4. If your tires are not balanced (or even just one tire), then that will cause vibration, usually at highway speeds. That vibration may even go away at faster speeds--that is, vibration is present at say 55-65 MPH, but not slower or faster. If you have several tires that are not balancing, this may have been caused by not rotating the tires and they are worn out-of-round. Several tires could be vibrating at different speeds, making a mess of your expected, steady ride as you vary speed during a normal drive. Tire cupping can also cause vibration and a tire that can't be balanced. If you have cupping, check the shock absorbers.
Good luck!
2. Lifting a Jeep will cause the steering to seem a bit flightier. It shouldn't have a pull one way or the other--but the steering will be lighter. The correction for this is a little more caster. However, the best way to fix that is to replace the stock front lower control arms with adjustables. There are also camber bolts, but they are strongly discouraged because they don't allow as much adjustment, and because they can come loose when off-road. Meanwhile, most folks just live with the flightiness until they can afford to replace the LCAs--if ever.
3. After the lift did you recenter your steering wheel? If your steering wheel is not centered when driving straight ahead, then your Jeep will sometimes think you're in a skid and will apply the brakes to get you out of the skid that you're not in. You should know this is happening because of your ESP/TCS lights. It will cause the Jeep to pull one way of the other, and at higher speeds it may even take away throttle control.
4. If your tires are not balanced (or even just one tire), then that will cause vibration, usually at highway speeds. That vibration may even go away at faster speeds--that is, vibration is present at say 55-65 MPH, but not slower or faster. If you have several tires that are not balancing, this may have been caused by not rotating the tires and they are worn out-of-round. Several tires could be vibrating at different speeds, making a mess of your expected, steady ride as you vary speed during a normal drive. Tire cupping can also cause vibration and a tire that can't be balanced. If you have cupping, check the shock absorbers.
Good luck!
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09-02-2011, 04:12 AM
#8
JK Junkie
For the bowing spring, I would check that the spring is properly inserted. I know that they have to be rotated in a certain manner.
And if your tires can't balance, then your rims might be bent? Unbalanced tires will give you vibrations, and this I am 200% sure of.
And if your tires can't balance, then your rims might be bent? Unbalanced tires will give you vibrations, and this I am 200% sure of.
09-02-2011, 05:14 AM
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Vibrations at higher speeds often indicate a tire out of balance, as you already mentioned the tires are difficult to balance static let alone dynamic
I installed a TF leveling kit last weekend and although I didn't experience vibrations my ESP light came on almost immediately. So piecing your story together after your leveling kit install, 1) vibrations at higher speed 2) difficulties to balance tires 3) no ESP light on, my two cents is that it is nothing to do with the fundamentals of the leveling kit.
It might though point to the installation (or adding to the tire to become imbalanced) as the spring should be straight and not bent. I assume it is your front and the spring has a recess it goes in (at the bottom), you might have the spring not in the recess causing a geometric differences, causing your imbalanced tire to exaggerate. So you had the problem before but at a lesser extend........
My two cents
I installed a TF leveling kit last weekend and although I didn't experience vibrations my ESP light came on almost immediately. So piecing your story together after your leveling kit install, 1) vibrations at higher speed 2) difficulties to balance tires 3) no ESP light on, my two cents is that it is nothing to do with the fundamentals of the leveling kit.
It might though point to the installation (or adding to the tire to become imbalanced) as the spring should be straight and not bent. I assume it is your front and the spring has a recess it goes in (at the bottom), you might have the spring not in the recess causing a geometric differences, causing your imbalanced tire to exaggerate. So you had the problem before but at a lesser extend........
My two cents
09-02-2011, 05:35 AM
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Issues?
I guess I was one of the lucky ones. I installed a 2 1/2" BB and had no problems whatsoever (knock wood). I even put harder springs on it and still have the stock shocks.
Tires not balanced will cause vibration and wandering. IT will also cause your alignment to be knocked out if it goes too long. I have the issue of pulling at low speeds but I chalk it up to the calipers not engaging the pads at the same time because when I pump the brakes it settles down and tracks straight. Loosen and retorque everything and centre the steering wheel (it's easy).
Also before you do anything disconnect the battery. This will kill the Jeeps memory of anything and basically reboot the computer after your done. My
.
Tires not balanced will cause vibration and wandering. IT will also cause your alignment to be knocked out if it goes too long. I have the issue of pulling at low speeds but I chalk it up to the calipers not engaging the pads at the same time because when I pump the brakes it settles down and tracks straight. Loosen and retorque everything and centre the steering wheel (it's easy).
Also before you do anything disconnect the battery. This will kill the Jeeps memory of anything and basically reboot the computer after your done. My
.
Last edited by rokklymer; 09-02-2011 at 09:57 AM.