Front track bar question
#11
Well Yeah...BUT the OP HAS both front and rear adjustable track bars. Maybe you should consider doing the same.
Edit: Sorry but although the above statemant IS correct it's NOT the cause of your "DW"
Edit: Sorry but although the above statemant IS correct it's NOT the cause of your "DW"
Last edited by Michigan Mike; 03-11-2009 at 03:00 PM.
#12
Nothing was wrong with the jeep till the lift was installed. Has 16000 miles on it. Everything has been torqued three times by me, 4WPW, and Supplee offroad. We have checked for cracks ( even the small ones that are hard to see) in all the mounts, worn out bushings no one can find anything ,and they all say the same thing " you need a new trackbar for the bigger lift". I've had the tire pressures at 15, 20, 30, 35, it's all the same. Ethier I have a brain block or the kit is not working. I love Teraflex and have had no problems in the past but this time sucks. I cannot get a clear answer from anyone over there and all Teraflex say is I need to buy more and more stuff. I'm awaiting the arrival of my Teraflex trackbar you suggested me buy and I'll bet that fixes the problem.
Death wobble in my Jeep is going 20 miles an hour, hitting a small pot hole, then the steering goes side to side very fast and will not stop till you do. I have not tried it on the highway yet.
2dr rubicon 07
Death wobble in my Jeep is going 20 miles an hour, hitting a small pot hole, then the steering goes side to side very fast and will not stop till you do. I have not tried it on the highway yet.
2dr rubicon 07
Did you replace your control arms? What was your caster when you had the alignment done? Sounds like the DW to me... I would stay off the highway too!!! How much lift did you get in the front from your lift? Are you running a coil spacer above it or just the factory isolator? If you got tons of lift up front, and did not change at least lower arm length (or shorten adj. upper) then you have caster issues you need to address.
#13
Did you replace your control arms? What was your caster when you had the alignment done? Sounds like the DW to me... I would stay off the highway too!!! How much lift did you get in the front from your lift? Are you running a coil spacer above it or just the factory isolator? If you got tons of lift up front, and did not change at least lower arm length (or shorten adj. upper) then you have caster issues you need to address.
I do not know what the caster is or was, I'm looking at the invoce and it does not say.
The lift seems more that three but the part number on the springs belong to the three inch kit. Factory isolator is all thats in the front but I'm going to put a spacer in to help level the Jeep out a little.
All the caster issues was addressed by 4WPW, they have the cams marked on the control arms.
Thanks for all your thoughts and I did'nt mean to hijack the thread
#14
What control arms are you running that have the cams? I might be in the minority here, but I have fought death wobble a few times for various reasons. I personally believe that a combinatoin of issues that are "slightly" out of line can all add up to be enough incorrect steering geometry to cause DW. I went from TF 2.5" coils to 3" coils (with a 3/4" spacer also) and it resulted in DW. Just that additional 1/2", which was really 1.5", made enough of a difference.
Now before I get flamed... I also did not immediately fix my axle centering or my caster. The extra lift did not cause either to be too far off, but combined it was enough to cause the inertia to set off the axle into DW. Adjusting the TB 1/4" and rolling the axle 3 turns of the upper CA's fixed the problem, but only adding caster itslef did not.
So, personally I think that 1 steering angle that is off only slightly will not cause you a problem... but combine that being slightly off, with a slightly off additional angle/measurement can be significant enough.
Back to your issue... You say that your caster was "taken care of" but you dont know to what degree. If they rolled it back to only 4* AND your axle was slightly off center, I think this could casue DW. Fix one MIGHT fix the problem, fix both and problem solved.
I hope I explained myself well enough and this helps...
Now before I get flamed... I also did not immediately fix my axle centering or my caster. The extra lift did not cause either to be too far off, but combined it was enough to cause the inertia to set off the axle into DW. Adjusting the TB 1/4" and rolling the axle 3 turns of the upper CA's fixed the problem, but only adding caster itslef did not.
So, personally I think that 1 steering angle that is off only slightly will not cause you a problem... but combine that being slightly off, with a slightly off additional angle/measurement can be significant enough.
Back to your issue... You say that your caster was "taken care of" but you dont know to what degree. If they rolled it back to only 4* AND your axle was slightly off center, I think this could casue DW. Fix one MIGHT fix the problem, fix both and problem solved.
I hope I explained myself well enough and this helps...
#15
Thats the best advice i've heard yet. Thanks and I'll print that off and try to work with it. I agree that 4WPW says "it's takin care of' didn't convence me very much, it's just hard to keep dealing with everyone, finding a ride to work, dropping it off at the shop, waiting long periods of time to get it back, finding a way to pick the jeep up, you know. I'm not very knowlegable when it comes to wheel alinement but it DW'ed before and it still does, they also suggested a stronger steering stabilizer, but I know better than that, this isn't my first lift but it is the first time i've had this much troble. I do know Teraflex sells a trackbar for the 3 inch lift and that right there tells me something.
I just went out and put the "Foot" in foot pounds and test drove it, still DW. Factory control arms is what i have
I just went out and put the "Foot" in foot pounds and test drove it, still DW. Factory control arms is what i have
#16
The kit is available in many different configurations. like you got it, and with adj. track and control arms everywhere, and then some options in between. I got the kit with adj. lowers in the front and uppers in the rear. I added JKS adj. track arms front and rear. My Jeep dirves better than it did with the 2" superlift BB I replaced it with. I got over 4" of lift from the kit and it handles fantastic. I used to have the ESP/BAS lights come on and the traction control engage around corners all the time. Now it only comes on when the Jeep absolutely needs it. Just like stock.
I know you went with cams, and it is a total pain to get rid of them.... but man I would get some adj. lower arms for the front at least. Crank up that caster. WOL and others recommend 6*.. Teraflex says 5*. I adjusted mine like they said with the passenger just a tiny bit longer than the drivers side, and my Jeep no longer pulls to the right when I hit the brakes. It used to pull really hard especially when apply brakes hard. Now you can push them hard and it stops straight as an arrow. Plus the arms are real beefy and nice. I like my Jeep and think it is nice, and I think these new jeeps drive really nice... Why not keep that? Spend the money and get that nice Jeep right! I am going to get the rest of the control arms. Plus I am going to add a drop pitman arm, and frame mounted track arm brackets. I am also going to change my driveshafts, and probably crank up my caster to 6*. I love my Jeep and want it to perform the best it possibly can.
I know you went with cams, and it is a total pain to get rid of them.... but man I would get some adj. lower arms for the front at least. Crank up that caster. WOL and others recommend 6*.. Teraflex says 5*. I adjusted mine like they said with the passenger just a tiny bit longer than the drivers side, and my Jeep no longer pulls to the right when I hit the brakes. It used to pull really hard especially when apply brakes hard. Now you can push them hard and it stops straight as an arrow. Plus the arms are real beefy and nice. I like my Jeep and think it is nice, and I think these new jeeps drive really nice... Why not keep that? Spend the money and get that nice Jeep right! I am going to get the rest of the control arms. Plus I am going to add a drop pitman arm, and frame mounted track arm brackets. I am also going to change my driveshafts, and probably crank up my caster to 6*. I love my Jeep and want it to perform the best it possibly can.
#17
This thread really took off It would seem to me that with any amount of lift that will induce a movement in the axle you would need to replace both track bars, just look at where these things are connected. I think just because TF does not offer the trackbar in the 3 inch kit does not mean it is not suggested. Their front and rear trackbars are fairly expensive and if combined in the kit would be cost prohibitive for a lot of people, I personally think it was a good idea they left them out.
#18
This thread really took off It would seem to me that with any amount of lift that will induce a movement in the axle you would need to replace both track bars, just look at where these things are connected. I think just because TF does not offer the trackbar in the 3 inch kit does not mean it is not suggested. Their front and rear trackbars are fairly expensive and if combined in the kit would be cost prohibitive for a lot of people, I personally think it was a good idea they left them out.
#19
I know that the track bar itself should not be the cause or fix to DW, but in my case adding an adjustable track bar helped, and the adjustable controll arms completely fixed it. I am running 6 degrees with centered axles and what a difference.
Now Jeepersjeep, you sound frustrated, but take it from me...You MUST research any suspension mods, and never take for granted that any kit will work as is. There have been thousands of this same kit installed with no problems, so don't blame the kit. Each Jeep is different, and like was said, the slightest combination of things being just not quite right will casue DW. There are some on this forum who have reported the DW on a bone stock JK, and mine showed up after 20k miles on my lift. I have no idea what set it off.
Even adjusting my toe setting helped my problem.
Get used to the idea that one mod will usually require another to compensate for something or other that comes to light during the mod.
My recomendation is to ditch the stock arms and go to adjustable control arms, and set the caster to around 6 degrees (i have heard some going as far as 7 degrees).
Back to the original point of this thread, the adjustable track bar is fine with no brackets needed.
I hope this all helps...great discussion...
Now Jeepersjeep, you sound frustrated, but take it from me...You MUST research any suspension mods, and never take for granted that any kit will work as is. There have been thousands of this same kit installed with no problems, so don't blame the kit. Each Jeep is different, and like was said, the slightest combination of things being just not quite right will casue DW. There are some on this forum who have reported the DW on a bone stock JK, and mine showed up after 20k miles on my lift. I have no idea what set it off.
Even adjusting my toe setting helped my problem.
Get used to the idea that one mod will usually require another to compensate for something or other that comes to light during the mod.
My recomendation is to ditch the stock arms and go to adjustable control arms, and set the caster to around 6 degrees (i have heard some going as far as 7 degrees).
Back to the original point of this thread, the adjustable track bar is fine with no brackets needed.
I hope this all helps...great discussion...
#20
Ok I'm going to sound mean but it's not directed personaly on anyone..so don't take this the wrong way.
That is all excuses and BS. Some of the ads say "(aftermarket wheels with 4.5" backspacing or less is recommended). " or how about "driveline modifications may be required".
This is what the kit said I purchased.
This system includes a 3" lift kit, shocks, front swaybar disconnects, rear swaybar links, rear trackbar bracket, bumpstops and all necessary hardware. This kit will allow you to run up to a 35" tire (aftermarket wheels with 4.5" backspacing or less are required). Fits all JK Wranglers including Rubicon and Unlimited.
So much for the stock wheels your talking about huh?
says wheels are required but nothing about f track bar like your saying
-This is the problem.-
The kit I purchased will make your jeep undriveable, until you purchase wheels, tires, a shop to mount bal aline, front t-bar, and at the end of that, control arms is what I'm hearing now. That's unacceptible.
I would much rather know what I needed at first, not get this and that and waste money running hear and there. Because of this problem i'm seriously thinking about removing this system and going with a different brand. Teraflex has been NO help. I just hear professional excuses like you see above.
Disagree if you like, but that's how it is.
We have a 07 sahara and was really wanting to do the teraflex stuff on it but I'll be looking for different kits now.
I do thank all the members from the jkforum and please do not get upset at reading this.
That is all excuses and BS. Some of the ads say "(aftermarket wheels with 4.5" backspacing or less is recommended). " or how about "driveline modifications may be required".
This is what the kit said I purchased.
This system includes a 3" lift kit, shocks, front swaybar disconnects, rear swaybar links, rear trackbar bracket, bumpstops and all necessary hardware. This kit will allow you to run up to a 35" tire (aftermarket wheels with 4.5" backspacing or less are required). Fits all JK Wranglers including Rubicon and Unlimited.
So much for the stock wheels your talking about huh?
says wheels are required but nothing about f track bar like your saying
-This is the problem.-
The kit I purchased will make your jeep undriveable, until you purchase wheels, tires, a shop to mount bal aline, front t-bar, and at the end of that, control arms is what I'm hearing now. That's unacceptible.
I would much rather know what I needed at first, not get this and that and waste money running hear and there. Because of this problem i'm seriously thinking about removing this system and going with a different brand. Teraflex has been NO help. I just hear professional excuses like you see above.
Disagree if you like, but that's how it is.
We have a 07 sahara and was really wanting to do the teraflex stuff on it but I'll be looking for different kits now.
I do thank all the members from the jkforum and please do not get upset at reading this.