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Flightly steering on highway after ball joint and steering upgrades
Modified JK TechTech related bulletin board forum regarding subjects such as suspension, tires & wheels, steering, bumpers, skid plates, drive train, cages, on-board air and other useful modifications that will help improve the performance and protection of your Jeep JK Wrangler (Rubicon, Sahara, Unlimited and X) on the trail.
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Because it is just a couple bolts and easy, I would remove the steering stabilizer just to get that out of the equation and see if anything changes in regard to veering out of lane. If it were my jeep, I'd probably just put that front axle on jack stands, remove the tires so the extra weight is not there, and see how easily you can rotate the knuckles back and forth by hand. It's been years not, but i remember those RPs rotating the knuckles so easily. My buddy originally had an issue with the BJs he received and was in contact with the guys at RP. Those guys provided superb customer service and he had great communication with them (this is back when RP BJs were not as commonly used as these days). Anyhow, I was there helping when the replacement BJ was installed and what sticks in my head is how easily the entire knuckle rotated after install. It was like hot knife through butter kinda ease. IDK if maybe Chiapeteater has any comment on that or observed how his in similar situation (while working on it and not driving). If things are rotating pretty easily, I'd think maybe we're looking at a preload issue with the BJs. Just my guess though.
The only time I have ever turned the wheels after the RP's were installed was when I swapped out from 2.5" springs to 3.5" springs and put the 37's on. I did it when I was using a couple of jacks and jack stands just to check all my clearances and I do remember them being relatively easy to turn, but to be honest I really don't have anything to compare it to. When I do work on my F-350's I don't think that I have ever taken the time to try and make the wheels turn left and right. I'm mostly just doing tire rotations and that's it. Wish I could have been more help, but that's all I got.
Because it is just a couple bolts and easy, I would remove the steering stabilizer just to get that out of the equation and see if anything changes in regard to veering out of lane. If it were my jeep, I'd probably just put that front axle on jack stands, remove the tires so the extra weight is not there, and see how easily you can rotate the knuckles back and forth by hand. It's been years not, but i remember those RPs rotating the knuckles so easily. My buddy originally had an issue with the BJs he received and was in contact with the guys at RP. Those guys provided superb customer service and he had great communication with them (this is back when RP BJs were not as commonly used as these days). Anyhow, I was there helping when the replacement BJ was installed and what sticks in my head is how easily the entire knuckle rotated after install. It was like hot knife through butter kinda ease. IDK if maybe Chiapeteater has any comment on that or observed how his in similar situation (while working on it and not driving). If things are rotating pretty easily, I'd think maybe we're looking at a preload issue with the BJs. Just my guess though.
Originally Posted by chiapeteater
The only time I have ever turned the wheels after the RP's were installed was when I swapped out from 2.5" springs to 3.5" springs and put the 37's on. I did it when I was using a couple of jacks and jack stands just to check all my clearances and I do remember them being relatively easy to turn, but to be honest I really don't have anything to compare it to. When I do work on my F-350's I don't think that I have ever taken the time to try and make the wheels turn left and right. I'm mostly just doing tire rotations and that's it. Wish I could have been more help, but that's all I got.
Good luck.
Thank you both for your input, I will definitely give this a check when I get back in town!
The only 2 things I can think of for now is
The BJ pre-load is off, I will reach out to RP and see what they recommend I do in this situation.
I do recall when installing the stabilizer that the stabilizer would push out under compression, like a shock - I am not sure if that is normal behavior, as in my mind this is just designed to resist movement, not resist movement and push as well. If the stabilizer pushes, I could imagine this would cause veering off to the side and make me correct the jeep's direction more than normal.
Did you happen to adjust your steering box to try and tighten things up? That causes flighty steering. That sector shaft adjustment should only be adjusted a 1/4 turn either way at the most. It is primarily designed for steering box setup and should never be adjusted. Sloppy steering box = buy new steering box.
Stabilizers should be 100% hydraulic so they won't push in either direction.
Recheck the toe. I had this problem on my jeep and the toe was off. There are many videos and tutorials on aligning toe on the jk's. I also see in the pics that it looks like where the stabilizer shock is mounted to the bar the paint has smeared. It may be sliding back and forth on the steering arm.
I took the SS off to see how the jeep drives without it. I don't know if it was all in my head, but the drive does feel less "flightly" even at highway speeds. However, there is still some flightly feeling so I am sure the signs point to the BJs. I would say things in general do still feel tighter than stock, but it is a little more flightly than before the upgrades.
When I removed the SS, it definitely does push out. I don't know how the forces I exert onto the SS compare to the forces the Jeep's steering system, my guess is I am way weak , but it does take a considerable amount of constant load to compress the thing. Sitting in place without both ends bolted down, the SS fully extends, it doesnt just hold its current position. My guess is that since the jeep does have some flight to it, coupling that with the constant but slow push of the SS results in me constantly correcting/overcorrecting when driving at higher speeds.
I can re-check my toe, but I shared the numbers from the alignment - I havent done any adjustment since then. What would be recommended numbers for toe assuming what my alignment showed isnt good enough? I heard you want a little bit of toe-in, it doesnt look like I have that per my alignment. Could that be a contributor?
I am leaning towards a BJ-related issue (installation?), so I will contact RP to see if they have any recommendations. I will say that with the SS removed, turning the wheel still felts so buttery smooth (no play), it's just that the jeep wanders so much.
Other than that, I am completely all ears to anything else folks may have to suggest!
About 3 months ago, I was doing an inspection on the suspension in my 2014 JKUR as I would often hear clunky sounds coming from the front end after going over speed bumps or pot holes. I noticed my stock ball joints were a little sloppy, so I opted to replace them with an upgrade, and proactively refresh my tie rods with an upgrade while I was at it (that way I could tackle both projects and do one alignment in the end). However, after doing these upgrades (at home) and an alignment (at my local 4WPs store), my steering is incredibly flightly on the highway, sometimes to the point where I don't feel entirely comfortable driving freeway speeds (randomly decides to dart left or right, seems highly affected by wind around neighboring cars, etc). After some research, I am seeing there could be 2 potential things at play, but wanted to get some feedback from people here that have a lot more experience with lifted JKs than I. The 2 issues I have seen are 1. you need to "break in" the ball joints, some people stating they need to drive up to 1000 miles to break them in, and 2. there could be a castor issue. I am thinking my castor should be pretty good, and am hoping that the ball joints will break in, but I feel they should have broken in by now (I didnt record the exact mileage when I did the repairs, but I should be pretty close to the 1000 mile mark). Any thoughts? It's starting to really bother me as the Jeep feels a little unpredictable at times and I am not sure where to go (alignment seems good, and all of the parts I got should be quality parts. I installed everything with my dad who has been a mechanic for 40 years).
After the upgrades were installed, here are the before-and-after adjustment alignment results from 4WPs:
Additional comments:
The steering itself doesn't feel "sloppy", as in, if I turn the steering wheel even a little bit, the jeep changes direction pretty quickly (sometimes it seems a little over-steer).
Before the balljoint and tie rod / drag link upgrades, my Jeep felt a little "loose" in the steering, but not bad at all and drove very comfortably.
My lift has been installed for over 4 years and has felt great the entire time.
I keep tire pressure around 30PSI, with these tires being load range E, it's a little bumpy. I would think the tires would be fairly stiff for their size, so I wouldn't think it would be sidewall play (plus I never noticed this before the latest upgrades).
Do folks think my alignment is good? Seems like my caster should allow for pretty good feel on the highway. I don't really know where to go from here, maybe I do just need to drive more to break the ball joints in, but I should be getting pretty close to 800 miles or so and I dont feel like things are getting any better. I am open to any inputs yall may have!!
In my opinion, your numbers on your sheet aren’t that great. They are barely within spec on each section. I would bring the toe in more. This will help a lot in making your rig trac straightforward down the road. Yours is in spec, barely. Don’t you think with a wider stance you would want the toe in a bit more than spec? Also your caster is off, and yes you should address this issue.
lastly, it could be something wrong with the Fox shock/stabilizer. Maybe it’s sticking or too stiff. Try taking it off and see what effect it has. It could be in the wrong spot and be pulling funny too.
Your alignment sheet shows a couple of things. 1st off the left side camber is indicating a probable bent axle as it is 1.0 negative. Pretty common on the JK platform even on a Rubicon as they both use the same axle tube and inner knuckle. Caster being over max is not a bad thing. Just have to watch pinion angle for driveshaft vibration from the lower U-joint. Toe could go either way. I have read some people get better results with toe out vs toe in with larger tires. That is a simple adjustment from home with a set of toe plates. LR Toe Set Tool kit (ASSEMBLY) (lowrangeoffroad.com) and 2 tape measures. save your current setting so you can go back to where you are currently. Your cross camber shows it should pull to the right and so does the cross caster. Combine this with the gas charged steering stabilizer trying to push the steering to the left could be both trying to fight each other. The FOX pass through stabilizer PERFORMANCE SERIES 2.0 ATS STABILIZER | Truck Shocks | FOX (ridefox.com) removes the push of a conventional FOX stabilizer plus it has the ability to adjust the dampening to get your steering feel dialed in.
The preload on your ball joints could definitely add to the flighty feeling. That would be a good place to start. Here is a general bulletin from Moog regarding how much tension it should take to rotate a steering knuckle to determine if a ball joint is too tight. Not a bad place to start before you adjust your ball joint preload to see it it makes any measurable difference. Chevy Balljoints.pdf (pirate4x4.com)
I have the same issue.......so Im interested in the outcome. I have the Falcon thru shaft stabilizer. Ill set it on the light setting.
One thing that seems off.....when my tires are turned, it looks lihke 1 is turned more in or out than the other one. I would think that that should have been called out on the alignment tho if it were a bent axle..? I bought my jeep from a used car dealer, dont have any history, so replaced everything but the steering box. Have 6.2degrees of caster. .24 degrees of total toe.
Last edited by silversurfer575; 12-11-2023 at 10:06 AM.
10-05-2023 | 05:23 AM
, but it does take a considerable amount of constant load to compress the thing. Sitting in place without both ends bolted down, the SS fully extends, it doesnt just hold its current position. My guess is that since the jeep does have some flight to it, coupling that with the constant but slow push of the SS results in me constantly correcting/overcorrecting when driving at higher speeds.
