feel loose in steering with budget boost 2,5".... :/
08-23-2014, 05:53 PM
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feel loose in steering with budget boost 2,5".... :/
Hello ! a friend of mind just got installed teraflex 2.5" b. boost lift (with shock adapter) on his 2drs 2010 rubicon, his Jeep was completely stock. he's feeling now some loose on steering... Usually under 3" you don't feel any loose.. right ? Is it something that happend sometime with 2.5"...? He chose that 2.5" lift instead of 3"-3.5" to avoid to upgrade drinving part.
Could it be a miss on installation..? anyway after 500km he'll go back to garage where installation were done to tight all bolt again and let they know about the issue. Garage who did the job are really experimented on lift installation they install a lot of lift by week....
Just as example, on my jeep, but a 4 dr, I had a 3" lift and installed at same place, and I didn't felt any loose on steering... so don't really understand why a 2.5" could give this issue....?
Let me know if you ever heard story like that about 2,5" lift...
Thanks !
Could it be a miss on installation..? anyway after 500km he'll go back to garage where installation were done to tight all bolt again and let they know about the issue. Garage who did the job are really experimented on lift installation they install a lot of lift by week....
Just as example, on my jeep, but a 4 dr, I had a 3" lift and installed at same place, and I didn't felt any loose on steering... so don't really understand why a 2.5" could give this issue....?
Let me know if you ever heard story like that about 2,5" lift...
Thanks !
08-23-2014, 06:27 PM
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When you add suspension height, the pinion tilts up, the caster number goes down, and the steering gets flightier. The higher you go, the lower the caster gets, and the flightier the steering. At 2.5", many people feel that the lower caster is not bad enough to bother correcting. It is completely a personal opinion on whether to correct it or not.
Another thing to consider is whether the control arms/trackbars were loosened before adding the coils/spacers, and whether they were tightened while in the air, or when back on the ground under full vehicle weight.
What specific components were installed with your 3" that were not installed with the 2.5"? Could it be that some form of caster correction was included in your lift, that was not included in your friends?
Did either of you get an alignment at a shop? Compare your caster numbers.
Another thing to consider is whether the control arms/trackbars were loosened before adding the coils/spacers, and whether they were tightened while in the air, or when back on the ground under full vehicle weight.
What specific components were installed with your 3" that were not installed with the 2.5"? Could it be that some form of caster correction was included in your lift, that was not included in your friends?
Did either of you get an alignment at a shop? Compare your caster numbers.
08-24-2014, 12:29 AM
#3
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I really felt the difference with a 2.5" BB on my four door way back when. Put in front lower control arms to correct. As Nthinuf points out, some folks don't mind it--obviously you don't. However, it will be even more pronounced on a short wheel base Jeep. Check the things in Nthinuf's post, and if that checks okay (except the caster) and your friend wishes to correct, consider either control arm relocation brackets or adjustable front lower control arms. Do not opt for camber bolts if someone suggests that because they tend to slip, especially on vehicles used on rough roads/trails/rocks.
AEV JK Front Control Arm Brackets (20410AA)
Tera Flex JK Front Lower FlexArms (1653700)
Another thing you may want to compare are tire pressures. While that won't fix caster and on-center feel, it can affect how stiff the steering feels. For oversized tires, you generally need lower pressure than what the TPMS is set for or the tires will wear unevenly.
AEV JK Front Control Arm Brackets (20410AA)
Tera Flex JK Front Lower FlexArms (1653700)
Another thing you may want to compare are tire pressures. While that won't fix caster and on-center feel, it can affect how stiff the steering feels. For oversized tires, you generally need lower pressure than what the TPMS is set for or the tires will wear unevenly.
Last edited by Mark Doiron; 08-24-2014 at 12:42 AM.
08-24-2014, 04:34 AM
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Thanks for all this information !
He also got installed Front Cam Bolt, I know it's not the best thing and my friend are not going to do big off road... but it's a less expensive solution than control arm. And for now he's running his old little winter tire, waiting his new 33 or 35". The fact to move to bigger tire would it change something..?
I'll try to get his alignment report to compare with mind, on my 3" I also got installed this cam bolt at front.... but my lift is with coils and shock, not a coil spacer lift... Could it be also a difference between both kind of lift..? I mean on steering feeling..
He also got installed Front Cam Bolt, I know it's not the best thing and my friend are not going to do big off road... but it's a less expensive solution than control arm. And for now he's running his old little winter tire, waiting his new 33 or 35". The fact to move to bigger tire would it change something..?
I'll try to get his alignment report to compare with mind, on my 3" I also got installed this cam bolt at front.... but my lift is with coils and shock, not a coil spacer lift... Could it be also a difference between both kind of lift..? I mean on steering feeling..
Last edited by karlos; 08-24-2014 at 04:37 AM.
08-24-2014, 05:29 AM
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"Another thing to consider is whether the control arms/trackbars were loosened before adding the coils/spacers, and whether they were tightened while in the air, or when back on the ground under full vehicle weight"
This ^^^^^ is very important.
Often .. The Installer will droop thw suspension, throw the spacers in and call it a day. What happens, the rubber bushings --specifically in the control arms--are bound up (preloaded)
This can cause odd ball alignment numbers and in worse cases .. Premature failure.
The cam bolts should have caster angle in check. How about toe ?
Did you/your friend ever have the alignment checked?
If the bushings are at a preload. Do this.
- tires remain on and jeep on the ground -or- jack stands under the axles.
- loosen but don't remove all control arms and track bar bolts.
- now you want to rock the jeep/Jump on the bumpers. Letting the rubber bushings find their new home.
- torque (no order)
All CA's are 125 ft lbs, except front uppers 75 ft lbs
Both track bars are 125 ft lbs.
Helpful tip
If you have a Harbor freight local. Pick up one of their 24" or longer breaker bars.
Anchored against the ground or frame/axle tube/etc makes for a great torque buddy.
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed
This ^^^^^ is very important.
Often .. The Installer will droop thw suspension, throw the spacers in and call it a day. What happens, the rubber bushings --specifically in the control arms--are bound up (preloaded)
This can cause odd ball alignment numbers and in worse cases .. Premature failure.
The cam bolts should have caster angle in check. How about toe ?
Did you/your friend ever have the alignment checked?
If the bushings are at a preload. Do this.
- tires remain on and jeep on the ground -or- jack stands under the axles.
- loosen but don't remove all control arms and track bar bolts.
- now you want to rock the jeep/Jump on the bumpers. Letting the rubber bushings find their new home.
- torque (no order)
All CA's are 125 ft lbs, except front uppers 75 ft lbs
Both track bars are 125 ft lbs.
Helpful tip
If you have a Harbor freight local. Pick up one of their 24" or longer breaker bars.
Anchored against the ground or frame/axle tube/etc makes for a great torque buddy.
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed
08-24-2014, 11:49 AM
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"Another thing to consider is whether the control arms/trackbars were loosened before adding the coils/spacers, and whether they were tightened while in the air, or when back on the ground under full vehicle weight"
This ^^^^^ is very important.
Often .. The Installer will droop thw suspension, throw the spacers in and call it a day. What happens, the rubber bushings --specifically in the control arms--are bound up (preloaded)
This can cause odd ball alignment numbers and in worse cases .. Premature failure.
The cam bolts should have caster angle in check. How about toe ?
Did you/your friend ever have the alignment checked?
If the bushings are at a preload. Do this.
- tires remain on and jeep on the ground -or- jack stands under the axles.
- loosen but don't remove all control arms and track bar bolts.
- now you want to rock the jeep/Jump on the bumpers. Letting the rubber bushings find their new home.
- torque (no order)
All CA's are 125 ft lbs, except front uppers 75 ft lbs
Both track bars are 125 ft lbs.
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed
This ^^^^^ is very important.
Often .. The Installer will droop thw suspension, throw the spacers in and call it a day. What happens, the rubber bushings --specifically in the control arms--are bound up (preloaded)
This can cause odd ball alignment numbers and in worse cases .. Premature failure.
The cam bolts should have caster angle in check. How about toe ?
Did you/your friend ever have the alignment checked?
If the bushings are at a preload. Do this.
- tires remain on and jeep on the ground -or- jack stands under the axles.
- loosen but don't remove all control arms and track bar bolts.
- now you want to rock the jeep/Jump on the bumpers. Letting the rubber bushings find their new home.
- torque (no order)
All CA's are 125 ft lbs, except front uppers 75 ft lbs
Both track bars are 125 ft lbs.
2007 Rubicon /2 door/6 speed
Yes They did an alignment right after, the thing a don't know it's if the control arms/trackbars were loosened before adding the coils/spacers, and whether they were tightened while in the air, or when back on the ground under full vehicle weight..as you said. I'll try to have this answer this week... I'm prety sure they loosened all needed part... I hope so, they're specialist, as I said they installed a ton of lift a week on jeepm so I guess they do it correctly, but I'll call at garage to be sure.
But, when I added 1" coils spacer on mind I didn't loose any thing.... oupsss :/ but for 1" it doesn't really impact.. I didn't a alignement recently and all specs was ok... But it would be a good thing maybe for me to loose all control arm when i'll have time... And of course if I would have some free money to spend I would swap for new adjustable one !! but not for now...
Last edited by karlos; 08-24-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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08-24-2014, 12:16 PM
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If I read it right, both of you currently have cam bolts installed?
See if you can find a local shop that does free alignment checks, and compare the numbers. It could be that his bolts were not adjusted correctly, or possibly have already slipped. Some shops will paint a line over the cams so you can easily see if they are still in place.
Another option might be to just pick up a cheap angle finder ($8-$10 at harbor freight or where ever) and compare the same spots on both axles/driveshafts. Up in the Write-Ups area, click the Index at the top, and scroll down to either the Steering or Troubleshooting areas. There is a link to a DIY Alignment writeup that will show how to get a ballpark estimate on the caster using the angle finder.
See if you can find a local shop that does free alignment checks, and compare the numbers. It could be that his bolts were not adjusted correctly, or possibly have already slipped. Some shops will paint a line over the cams so you can easily see if they are still in place.
Another option might be to just pick up a cheap angle finder ($8-$10 at harbor freight or where ever) and compare the same spots on both axles/driveshafts. Up in the Write-Ups area, click the Index at the top, and scroll down to either the Steering or Troubleshooting areas. There is a link to a DIY Alignment writeup that will show how to get a ballpark estimate on the caster using the angle finder.