JK-linux

I'd agree with that, but would be happy with +50rwhp/+50rwtq naturally aspirated for $2500. That's do-able on my budget if it idled correctly and was reliable.

chuck45

50/50 for 2500 sounds ok.

For 5,000 I want 100/100.

For 10,000+ I want 200/200

But 50 ft/# of torque would make a very big difference. How many total Hemi's have been done? How many SC's have been done. I'll bet something that gave real benefit for 2500 would sell well. Jeez, people drop a grand or better on CAI, programmers, throttle body spacers and cat backs with little or no benefit.

08SaharaM6

Performance is not cheap. Someone may be able to do it that cheap if they have the means but to expect a kit to be available or to pay someone to do it for $2500 that adds 50/50, you guys are crazy

JK-linux

You've got that right Chuck. I could tell a big difference on my 4200lb+ Charger with 80rwtq so I'd imagine that and extra 50rwtq on a JK would be pretty sweet. Plenty to offset the heavy stuff we bolt on as well as some better balance on the low end. That would be just fine by me. Just looking to keep up with traffic, not break any 1/4 mile times

SASQUATCH

Agreed, I know one of the nations best race engine builders who is top-notch in profiling cams for specific builds which I'm sure could put something together for a 3.8L JK cam profile with a fair amount of torque which is what we need, the PCM remedy would be a piggyback from F.A.S.T. to control the engine air/fuel ratio/timing, etc and a good dynotune would be required. Likely the dynotune could tweak the factory PCM but it would show on inspection that it's been modified which is a fail here in TX...although we all know ways around that...technically speaking it's a fail. If one went with a moderate cam upgrade it would require matching springs, retainers, keepers, hyd-lifters, etc to hold it all together well. No market, therefore does not exist, therefore custom one off cam springs (and parts) would be pretty expensive.

chuck45

I agree with you. I didn't initially bring up the 2500 figure. I have built enough engines over the years and know what it costs. But I'm willing to listen if somebody says he can put something together that provides real benefit for that number. Myself I see 5000 as a floor cost for any real benefit whether mods or FI. Especially when labor costs are factored in.

JK-linux

I hear you folks. I know it wouldn't happen on a JK for $2500 anytime soon, just dreaming out loud I guess. The HEMI stuff is established in the aftermarket (though nothing like the Camaro and Mustang folks) which is why I got what I did for $2500 on the LX. Gotta start somewhere though. Back in 2005, before widely available tuning, the LX'ers were parting with $5000 for +50~75rwtq and grateful to do so. $100 per 1rwtq is alot of cash, but not as much as it could be. The first 25 are cheap and the price rises exponentially from there as far as I've seen.

RIPPMODS

Make sure they are the same.. the JK looks stout inside, we’ve had them apart and they don’t look any Mini Van engine we’ve ever seen. Everything looks stronger and heavier.

On the contrary… we find the weakness to be the cylinder heads port size in… we have pumped boost into the engine and it simply doesn’t flow through the heads. These heads look like they are from another time…

The fuel system is adequate to handle what we've thrown at it so are the, head studs, gaskets and transmission. Even when we beat them up we never exceeded dangerous trans temps.

But what would the cost be? If your going to take out the engine and build it you could just as easy boost it or swap it for the same or less money. A stroker for small displacement engines cost $$ and then there is the labor.

We really are struggling to not sound bias… really we are its channeling to join a casual conversion like this. The only reason we even entered this thread is because we were asked to by a few members so we could not ignore it.

RIPP Modifications is not just a Supercharger manufacturer – we are a full blown speed shop and have been for over 14years. We mostly cater to small displacement vehicles and consider the 3.8 as such. As a rule whenever we have a client come in and ask our opinion about building up their small displacement engine – we explain that they would spend more time, energy and money on NA and then wish they had more. The real replacement for displacement is boost… it adds volume of air to the engine it can’t get normally aspirated. In our opinion we should start looking at the heads, a process we started a few weeks back. If we get positive results we will post them for all to see.

Great points... additionally we've tried a few different types of piggy backs on this ECU to see where we stand. This ECU does not like to be manipulated. The main reason our system works so consistently is because we actually turn the factory ECU into the tuning tool with our electronics. We have control timing to a degree and its limited by pre-programmed factors that are rock solid. You who have to reflash the base tuning to really get more out of it. Chrysler knew exactly who ends up using their vehicles... I dont think they counted on us coming up with our logic. Newer Toyota and Honda/Acura cars seem to be the only ones that are proving to be untouchable. This Jeep is close but not close enough

A cam will not be “easy” to do based on the above mentioned factory ECU and TIPM - which is the governing body of the JK’s power. This vehicle uses a combination of Cam and Crank sensors.. you may be able to get a little lift and duration however the con to that would be the ECU's reversal in air mixture to met EPA standards which is programmed in. As for cam advance - from what we've seen the cam and crank have to be in perfect synchronization to avoid going into limp mode.

We find it hard to believe that an NA JK with a 30% drive train loss will produce over 200 rear whp for a reasonable price… we’ve had more JK’s on our DYNO than anyone has had JK’s on DYNO’s… right out of the factory they make 118-148 REAR Wheel HP (WHP) consistently…that’s measured on a DYNO Dynamics LB400 which is an eddy-current loading dyno…its one of the most respected pieces of equipment world wide.

NA X Auto 31" 5:13 gears:


NA X Auto 35's 5:13 gears:


An air filter.. no piping no anything just an air filter popped at the end of the factory tube leading to the throttle body produces 6WHP… out of ALL and I mean ALL the exhaust systems we tested the MBRP was the only one to produce power from 1800rpm to read line adding significant torque…. Every header we tested fell off at low RPM and barely made a difference up top. Most of the other exhausts lost significant power…

If they are talking HP which is measured at the crank then that’s a different story.. we know there to be a 30% drive train loss in the JK so at best lets say they added what we know works.. 11 from the exhaust and 6 from the air filter and even 3 from the Hypertec unit that’s 160whp add your 30% loss and its 208.

We know it takes 6psi to reach 200whp on a stock JK:

Rubi NA 6spd 37; 4:10 gears:
http://www.youtube.com/v/k0HDQJsRFWk&hl

Rubi 8PSI 6spd 37; 4:10 gears:
http://www.youtube.com/v/E7aOkkKoUXs&hl=en&fs=1

Rubi 6spd NA vs Boost Chart 37's 4:10 gears


Rubi 8PSI 6spd 37; 4:10 gears Low Octane Map:
http://www.youtube.com/v/reoBwXlVdug&hl=en&fs=1

Rubi 8spi 6spd 37; 4:10 gears Hi Octane Map:
http://www.youtube.com/v/S6aPiKFvkD0&hl=en&fs=1

NA X Auto 35’ 3:73 GEARS:
http://www.youtube.com/v/B-1KqDw5pgk&hl=en&fs=1

X 8psi Auto Low Octane 35’ 3:73 Gears:
http://www.youtube.com/v/v9JF7DgyIDU&hl=en&fs=1


As tested we lost whp with a snorkel because you’re adding the restriction at the inlet. Contrary to popular belief having a snorkel does not “add” a ram air effect… it works in the reverse manner - unless you’ve specifically designed the “scoop” to “grab” air…we've found on average to lose 3psi with a snorkel attached based on restriction alone.

We agree… we tried making a feesable (marketable) NA power solution and found it to be null…we tried every combination with tuning and never really swa more than 20whp and torque barely moved.


Question always welcome
RIPPTECH

JulietKilo

RIPP you guys are freaking awesome, no has done more for the tuning of our minivan engine than you guys.

def9112

$5300 for the kit

next time look at what is in the kit, there is a whole other list of parts to purchase PLUS the HEMI Engine PLUS the Transmission