RedneckJeep

60 degree V6 engines are never going to make the power their 90 degree counterparts will make. The connecting rods have more leverage in a 90 degree engine. It's just physics. You cannot get around it. I disagree about the camshaft being the "heart", too. I have been building engines a very long time, and while cam selection is critical, cylinder head design and flow is what I would consider most important. I would be willing to bet a good extrude honing of the stock heads, along with the manifold runners and a good set of headers with a good flowing cat back could net possibly that magical 50 horses everybody's lookin for......maybe even more depending on how shrouded the factory valves are and how many harsh bends there are in the ports. Unfortunately, no one makes aftermarket internal engine parts for these engines.....at least not that I'm aware of. I would be really interested in seeing what the extrude honing process could net. Certainly 50 horsepower I would think, with all the other mods mentioned wouldn't be out of the question. I've built a few engines using the extrude hone process. I can speak personally from experience. It WORKS.

CIJeep

Redneck, as you know it is all a matter of personal preference. Doing a cam without the headwork is pretty useless. You can get an improvement and should, but proper flow is all important. Headwork and flow can only go so far before a cam is required and vice-versa.

Cam shafts are fairly cheap, the labor to constantly replace it isn't unless you have a great routine, or a spare engine to mess with and even then metallurgy can screw it all up. There are not too many people that know how to design one yet lots who think they know all about cams. Nowadays we have the love/hate relationship with electronic ignition and therein lies the crux of the problem. We either must fullu know the specs from the factory and how to modify them or shuck the whole thing for "our own design" and still meet federal and or state regs if we want the sucker on the street.

Given the obstacles it would be best to start with head work, and get the proper flow as you suggest, meanwhile looking for the open door of info that would allow a great cam design to match.

To the poster than mentioned that a 90 was better than a 60 deg, well duh! LOL and a radial design is better than a 90 deg, and 10 cylinders better than 8 amd 12 better than 10. So where does it all end? My daddy is bigger than your daddy? LOL I have had as much fun bldg up single cylinder engines and racing them as well as big blocks. It is all fun, and getting 16K rpm out of a single cyl when someone says it can't happen, well it is just plain fun. It's all for the sport of it.

Maybe one day I'll be able to drive a small jet engine on the street legally but I doubt it.

RedneckJeep

The camshaft arguement is totally mute. No one makes a camshaft for the 3.8....which essentially was my point. Head work would be about the only way. also, how do radial engines enter into the mix? We're only talking about what can FIT. If you wanna argue about what's most efficient, then we need to be talking about nuclear power. But again, that's not what we're discussing. We were originally talking about the stock, 60 degree V6. The comparison to the 90 degree was only made I suspect (at least from my standpoint), because there DOES happen to be a 90 degree 3.8 liter V6 in production....or I think it still is. At any rate, one HAS been made. We're not talking about stuffing a radial engine or a nuke into the Jeep.

chuck45

If everybody thought that way this forum wouldn't exist.

Schantin

After reading all the posts....here's my $0.02.

The limiting factor to modifying a 3.8 is the factory PCM.

The engine is an air pump. A larger lift/duration camshaft and higher flowing heads will allow for more air to enter the engine. IF combined with the proper increase in fuel, yep, you could probably add 30+RWHP to the JK.

BUT, who makes a program that allows to adjust fueling and spark for this PCM? Noone. A bigger cam will idle like crap (if at all) because the engine will be too rich at idle. The base running airflow values and volumetric efficiency values will need to be adjusted to compensate. On the flip side, the engine will run lean as a$$ at higher RPM's and risk detonation due to lack of fuel (a product of added airflow from the mods). Without the ability to add fuel by increasing volumetric efficiency table values.... the mod is at the least not going to perform to it';s potential.

I highly doubt any company will spend the big $$ in R&D to create a user program for this, as the demand for it isn't that high. If everyone was modding their JK Jeep engines (and not suspensions) like Mustang or Camaro owners....the products would be available. Simple supply and demand. Companies that make such programs are HP Tuners (the one I use for my LS1 Camaro), EFI Live, Hondata...and that's about it. They have some dodge applications, but not Wranglers. The operating systems are different enough that the dodge applications are not interchangeable.

So....I'm on the bandwagon that the best $$/power increase is a Hemi or FI. Concernincg forced induction, really stuck with the available supercharger packages too...all goes back to the tuning. I'd love to add a turbo to my JK (it's actually pretty easy to do)....but there's no way to tune for the added power.

BTW, You can get a custom ground cam by Comp Cams for about $500. Just give them the specs you want and they'll make one. (Have one in my Camaro) You can also get stock heads ported (with a basic port job) for around $250 at a decent machine shop. Now add in gaskets, valve springs, pushrods, someplace that can create a custom tune (if one exists) and you now have big $$. :(

chuck45

I think you are spot on. Many off us over the years have built up small block Chevys and Fords and big block Chevy, Fords and Chryslers. The most common being the small block Chevy. I always loved working on the small bleck Chevy because we were working on a base of knowledge that had been developing since the engine was produced in the mid 50's. A lot of things had been tried and failed and some tried, suceeded and got further dialed in. Because the demand was so great there were a lot of companies competeing and functional parts were readily available and cheap. Knowledge of what worked for a given use was abundent. We knew what would work in a 383 stroker for a tow vehicle and what would work in a light high revving Nova destined for the strip.

Think about gearing on the JK. When they first came out it was up in the air as to what worked but know that they have been out for a few years and different things were tried we have idea of what actually works (say 5.13's for an auto with 35's and 4.88's with a stick). We are no longer re-inventing the wheel. Messing with gears is a one day thing at a cost of 1200 to 2000. Well with this V6, in our particular application (a heavy brick) we'd be starting from scratch. And I'm not saying it can't be done - it's just that it makes no financial sense whatsoever for the aftermarket to try to do it. There would be an upside limited by cubic inches and the 60 degree pattern of the motor.

Yeah, I'd like to keep the weight down while getting more power and in that sense an SC makes sense. But I want to know what the bottom end can stand. I'd like to see RIPP, or somebody, push the 3.8 to destruction on a dyno to see how close to harm we'd be with an SC. How close to the ragged edge we'd be. I don't know about a turbo; the ones I've messed with always seemed to have their power band too high. And the JK runs hot enough as it is.

The logical answer my be the Hemi. If the AEV kit was 3500 and you could install it yourself it would be a no-brainer. I'm told that a shop that knows what they are doing can install a Hemi in 18 hrs if they have a lift to remove the body. If 10k would cover the labor, Hemi, trans and kit it would be a good way to go. But then a Dana 60 would be called for, at least in the rear.

But for the same 10k could we run a diesel? I'd really like to have the torque available and get 25 mpg. I guess time will tell. The chances of anything great happening in these troubled economic times isn't good anyway.

Infidel616

Companies like Ripp have already worked on the factory fuel mapping. How else would their supercharger work without running way too lean? Steps are being made, they just need to be vectored in the right direction for our application. I am positive if a company knew the interest level they would create some type of interface or fuel mapping tailored to our needs.

As for the turbocharger creating boost too high in the RPM range, that is dependant on turbo size. Knowing the proper size based upon application is key to a custom turbo setup. You could have a system spooling at idle if you wanted it to, it would just peak much sooner. All that is missing from a good turbo system is some sort of fuel management and as i mentioned earlier could be done, just like Ripp has.

randyd

Turbo would be a good way to go. Pressures are adjustable through a waste gate for the HP you want. Truckers do it, but thay can take much more pressure. Aircraft do it, and they have to be absolutely controled. So why not a 3.8V6?

Or RIPP since they are working on it..

CIJeep

No one does headwork either, by your def. (you cannot buy a hypo head off the shelf for these, yet.)

Radial engines only entered into the mix since I was replying to the guy about his V8 comment and the 60 versus 90 deg engines. Sorry to have confused you. His comment downplayed to possible power solely because of it being a 60 deg engine. It has (in a 3.3) already achieved 500+HP.

As to a cam grind, there are a few places near here that would be glad to do a regrind, and I suppose make new ones as well. ATM and for the near seeable future I will have no time to even think about doing any of this, even just to prove a point to the naysayers. You evidently missed my point about a single cylinder versus the v60, lol, only the oldtimers would understand but there used to be a favorite small block flathead in the V60 config.

My bottom line is that anyone can take most any engine and make something out of it if they so choose.

nangulator

I do head work and not with a computer, I do port matching as well, if someone has the money to spend, I have the time and knowledge to get about 72 horsepower per liter out of this engine