E-85 Conversions?
06-08-2008, 01:31 PM
#11
JK Freak
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Ethanol has about 34% less energy per unit volume than Gasoline. If you were to run 100% ethanol then you would see a 34% reduction in gas milage all said being equal.
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
06-08-2008, 02:24 PM
#12
JK Freak
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Its called E85 because its 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. It also produces nearly twice the CO2. Engines with higher compression ratio do better on higher octane fuels which as pointed out above, ethanol is one. That would make up for some of the power loss when running it in lieu of gas. However, its a trade off, the higher the compression ratio goes, the higher octane gasoline is required when you ran gas. That's where things get tricky with flex fuel vehicles like the Durango. There are 3 strategies that could be employed, favor the compression ration for ethanol, favor it for gas, or compromise. The compromise means its is going to be optimum for either so I suspect that car makers fudge a little to the gasoline side. I have a Bronco that I was in the process of building a propane engine for which also requires 11:1 ratio for optimum performance but that became no longer cost viable as propane soared. I considered building it for ethanol and soon realized that ethanol may never really pan out like it did in Brazil.
Last edited by Blue; 06-08-2008 at 02:30 PM.
06-08-2008, 03:34 PM
#13
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i have ran two tanks of e-85 and my jk runs better on it. i know every one will say that its bad for your fuel lines ect ect. but even reg unled has 10% ethenal so i will take my chances. and maybe not give as much money to the big oil co. but who really knows
06-08-2008, 04:17 PM
#14
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BAD... VERY bad move dude...
06-08-2008, 04:20 PM
#15
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Ethanol has about 34% less energy per unit volume than Gasoline. If you were to run 100% ethanol then you would see a 34% reduction in gas milage all said being equal.
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
06-08-2008, 05:06 PM
#16
JK Super Freak
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They dont sell it here but if I could I would buy it. THere are things you can do to recoup your lost mpg and hypermiling is one of them. Its all in how you drive.
The kit for our Jeeps is here. South America is using this on non e-85 engines with great success.
http://flextek.com/shop.htm
Also for the guys doubting the mileage you can get from flex fuel you can go here and read what this guy did. Everyone has only speculation at this point. If it were sold here I would use it just to spite the nay sayers.
Read this guys story.
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm
The kit for our Jeeps is here. South America is using this on non e-85 engines with great success.
http://flextek.com/shop.htm
Also for the guys doubting the mileage you can get from flex fuel you can go here and read what this guy did. Everyone has only speculation at this point. If it were sold here I would use it just to spite the nay sayers.
Read this guys story.
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm
06-08-2008, 05:07 PM
#17
JK Freak
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I can speak 1st hand for the decrease in mileage. I have a Suburban that can run E85... was using it due to it being cheaper... After a few tanks I noticed I wasn't getting $hit for mileage... I lost 2-3 mpg wich is probably about 20-25%... that's just a rough estimate... could have been worse... I concluded that the savings in price per gallong wasn't worth the loss in efficiency... it is actually more cost effective to pay 10% more per gallon ($.35-$.40 more).
They are making some engines that have a variable compression ratio so they will be truely a flex fuel vehicle that should be able to run any fuel including diesel, Kerosine, gas, ETOH etc... They vary the compression in these things using variable valve timing and holding exhaust valves open etc...Not sure if it will play out. Time will tell. IN the mean time, I will stick with regular gas.
06-08-2008, 05:12 PM
#18
JK Super Freak
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Not that big of a deal, your engine will think its running lean because more fuel is needed to get the burn correct. That is what the flex tek does for you. It increases fuel duration in the injectors giving the engine the extra fuel it needs for a good burn.
06-08-2008, 05:34 PM
#20
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Ethanol has about 34% less energy per unit volume than Gasoline. If you were to run 100% ethanol then you would see a 34% reduction in gas milage all said being equal.
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
Just for example:
100 miles on Gas in my Jeep would take roughly 5 gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon and would cost me $20.85
Now with E85 which is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline would be roughly 29% less effecient so you should see a 29% reduction in gas milage for the same distance traveled all things being equal. That comes out to:
100 miles traveled, 7 gallons of E85 used at a cost of $17.15 thus saving you $3.70. To do the calculations I used the posted prices of E85 and Gasoline in the above post.
In the end, its probably a wash as the economist that figure value know the energy content and charge to keep things competitive. So for your money, just buy whats convienent. If you are trying to save the planet then do your homework and just make some personal decisions.
I personally think Ethanol can be usefull but Corn is probably not the answer. Using easy to grow biomass and waist is probably a better alternative. Look up switch grass. Use a crop that needs less maintance, fertilizer etc... Better yet, use the sun and hydrogen. I think in the not so distant future we will just see many options to choose from to move us around and every region will have its most common based on its local natural resources. Time will tell.
Off soap box now...
Its called E85 because its 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. It also produces nearly twice the CO2. Engines with higher compression ratio do better on higher octane fuels which as pointed out above, ethanol is one. That would make up for some of the power loss when running it in lieu of gas. However, its a trade off, the higher the compression ratio goes, the higher octane gasoline is required when you ran gas. That's where things get tricky with flex fuel vehicles like the Durango. There are 3 strategies that could be employed, favor the compression ration for ethanol, favor it for gas, or compromise. The compromise means its is going to be optimum for either so I suspect that car makers fudge a little to the gasoline side. I have a Bronco that I was in the process of building a propane engine for which also requires 11:1 ratio for optimum performance but that became no longer cost viable as propane soared. I considered building it for ethanol and soon realized that ethanol may never really pan out like it did in Brazil.
I wonder if anybody has info about the Brazilian deal. I have heard that is all they run. Where do they get it, how does it work out in reality, etc. ?? Just wondering. I know this forum has people from all over the place with varied experience.