The dreaded nutserts
#11
Using a star lock washer worked pretty well for me. Used multiple washers up top too to let it slide better where needed. Thankfully all of them went in with a few curse words, wrenches and an extra hand.
It's certainly easier if someone holds down the bottom nut while you use both hands to keep the bolt steady.
It's certainly easier if someone holds down the bottom nut while you use both hands to keep the bolt steady.
#12
Like Rebar-7, I too bought the Astro Pneumatic 1442 tool. It came with a few nutserts of each size. I also bought a bunch of inserts from a different source. One thing I looked for in the inserts themselves was the knurled biting edges under the lip of the insert.
The first photo shows an insert with smooth flange or lip. It does have some knurling on the body of the piece but I don't know how well that will "bite" when it is pulled down tight.
The second photo shows the kind of inserts I bought. They have knurling on the lip which I hope will hold tighter than the ones in photo one.
The third photo shows another kind of insert with a very small lip or flange. These are supposed to create an almost flush finish when tightened. The insert should only barely protrude above the surface of the sheet metal. I haven't tried them.
My biggest concern is that the inserts will rotate either when tightening a bolt into them or when trying to loosen a "stuck" bolt later.
Oh, I bought my tool from ToolTopia.com and it was $71 including shipping. I just saw some on Google running from $60+ something to over $300. Same tool kit. I bought mine for an upcoming project with an off-road trailer so I haven't had an opportunity to use it for real yet. There are fancy hydraulic and electric models that are used in factories. They cost a lot more - like over $1000.
One more thing. I chose steel inserts over aluminum ones. I just think the steel will be stronger and hold better.
The first photo shows an insert with smooth flange or lip. It does have some knurling on the body of the piece but I don't know how well that will "bite" when it is pulled down tight.
The second photo shows the kind of inserts I bought. They have knurling on the lip which I hope will hold tighter than the ones in photo one.
The third photo shows another kind of insert with a very small lip or flange. These are supposed to create an almost flush finish when tightened. The insert should only barely protrude above the surface of the sheet metal. I haven't tried them.
My biggest concern is that the inserts will rotate either when tightening a bolt into them or when trying to loosen a "stuck" bolt later.
Oh, I bought my tool from ToolTopia.com and it was $71 including shipping. I just saw some on Google running from $60+ something to over $300. Same tool kit. I bought mine for an upcoming project with an off-road trailer so I haven't had an opportunity to use it for real yet. There are fancy hydraulic and electric models that are used in factories. They cost a lot more - like over $1000.
One more thing. I chose steel inserts over aluminum ones. I just think the steel will be stronger and hold better.
Last edited by Kent Gratteau; 10-14-2015 at 10:48 AM.
#13
I also bought a bunch of inserts from a different source. One thing I looked for in the inserts themselves was the knurled biting edges under the lip of the insert.
My biggest concern is that the inserts will rotate either when tightening a bolt into them or when trying to loosen a "stuck" bolt later.
My biggest concern is that the inserts will rotate either when tightening a bolt into them or when trying to loosen a "stuck" bolt later.
#14
Using a star lock washer worked pretty well for me. Used multiple washers up top too to let it slide better where needed. Thankfully all of them went in with a few curse words, wrenches and an extra hand. It's certainly easier if someone holds down the bottom nut while you use both hands to keep the bolt steady.
#15
I have been using nutserts/RIVNUT's since the 80's. They are fabulous. HOWEVER, you have to have the right tools. All of these devices work on the same basic principle where they expand in the hole to grip the panel you are installing them in. If you don't have the right tool, it will not grip properly and you will be up a creek.
RIVNUT has a wide variety of tools to "properly" install the nuts. Here is a link to the list of tools. Blind Fasteners, Rivet Nut Installation | Menomonee Falls, WI The least cost tool, the C845, does as good of a job of installation as does the most expensive tool. The only difference is that you would want an automatic air tool if you have hundreds of nuts to insert. Since you probably don't have that many to install, the low cost tool is good enough.
I use RIVNUT's on everything. Usually I have several bags of different sizes on hand so that when I need one I have it. Often Jeep parts vendors send us nutserts that are not of very good quality and expect us to install them with a bolt and a nut. That never works, especially, because the nutserts are the cheapest piece of Chinese crap that they can find. We all know the difference between good quality parts and Chinese crap. If you put a bit of effort into getting good tools you will be better off, now and in the future, when you need them again.
Here is some general information:
Finally I want to show that if you have an assortment of RIVNUT's you will get a lot of use out of them. Often I have been in a situation where it was just going to be a pain in the butt to get a nut on the back of a bolt, so instead I used a RIVNUT and made the whole situation easier. I use this set of RIVNUTS more often than my tap and dies, more often than my air hammer, more often than a pipe bender, more than a bearing puller, a pickle fork, a hole punch... Yet almost all of those tools cost more then the RIVNUT install tool.
Photo above, left to right.
10-32, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = .062"
1/4"-20, Stainless Steel, panel thickness = 1/8"
1/4"-20, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = 1/8"
M8, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = .062"
3/8"-16, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = 1/8"
1/2"-13, Zinc coated Steel, panel thickness = 1/4"
3 different size tools.
UPDATE:
If you have to remove a nutsert, I have found that you can do it one of two ways.
If there is no bolt stuck in the nutsert:
Use a drill that is the same size as the hole that you originally put the nutsert in. Drill the open end of the nutsert until the outer ring of the head comes off. Don't redrill all the way through the panel, just cut enough material off until the outer head/flange is removed. You may need to hold the insert from the back to keep it from spinning. Once the outer edge is removed, tap the nutsert through to the back of the panel.
If there is a bolt stuck in the nutsert, if it is spinning, or if you cant get to the backside to hold it from spinning:
Use a grinder with a cutoff wheel. All you need to do is grind off the flange on the outside of the panel so that you can tap the insert through the panel. Be very careful not to grind into the panel or you will make the metal too thin to hold a replacement nutsert.
RIVNUT has a wide variety of tools to "properly" install the nuts. Here is a link to the list of tools. Blind Fasteners, Rivet Nut Installation | Menomonee Falls, WI The least cost tool, the C845, does as good of a job of installation as does the most expensive tool. The only difference is that you would want an automatic air tool if you have hundreds of nuts to insert. Since you probably don't have that many to install, the low cost tool is good enough.
I use RIVNUT's on everything. Usually I have several bags of different sizes on hand so that when I need one I have it. Often Jeep parts vendors send us nutserts that are not of very good quality and expect us to install them with a bolt and a nut. That never works, especially, because the nutserts are the cheapest piece of Chinese crap that they can find. We all know the difference between good quality parts and Chinese crap. If you put a bit of effort into getting good tools you will be better off, now and in the future, when you need them again.
Here is some general information:
The RIVNUT catalog. Use this to figure out what you need. In sheet metal where a round hole is used, the RIVKLE part will work the best.
http://www.bollhoff-usa.com/static/p...version-EN.pdf
I get my RIVNUT's from Cardinal Components. It is an old style place where you have to call them to order what you want.
Grainger has revet nuts also. Here. http://www.grainger.com/category/riv...ecatalog/N-8o5
Note that the thickness of material that you are installing into is important. If your nut is the right size for a body panel where the sheet metal is only a single layer, then it is probably not long enough to be installed where two panels overlap and the material is twice as thick. If you install a nut that is too short, it WILL spin eventually.
My Jeep uses rivnuts everywhere. Here is a list.http://www.bollhoff-usa.com/static/p...version-EN.pdf
I get my RIVNUT's from Cardinal Components. It is an old style place where you have to call them to order what you want.
Grainger has revet nuts also. Here. http://www.grainger.com/category/riv...ecatalog/N-8o5
Note that the thickness of material that you are installing into is important. If your nut is the right size for a body panel where the sheet metal is only a single layer, then it is probably not long enough to be installed where two panels overlap and the material is twice as thick. If you install a nut that is too short, it WILL spin eventually.
Rear corners from AEV are held on by them.
LOD rock sliders are held to the frame with them. 1/2" one's that are installed in the frame sidewall.
Replaced the 4 plastic Christmas tree fasteners on each side where the plastic trim attaches to the body.
Used them to install ground straps between the tailgate and the body for a good CB antenna ground.
Bumper mounted lights and the AEV winch delete plate are held on with them.
The light bar above the window is held to the bracket with them.
The underseat Concealed Carry box is anchored to the floorpan with them.
The Ham radio is mounted under the passengers seat with them.....
LOD rock sliders are held to the frame with them. 1/2" one's that are installed in the frame sidewall.
Replaced the 4 plastic Christmas tree fasteners on each side where the plastic trim attaches to the body.
Used them to install ground straps between the tailgate and the body for a good CB antenna ground.
Bumper mounted lights and the AEV winch delete plate are held on with them.
The light bar above the window is held to the bracket with them.
The underseat Concealed Carry box is anchored to the floorpan with them.
The Ham radio is mounted under the passengers seat with them.....
Finally I want to show that if you have an assortment of RIVNUT's you will get a lot of use out of them. Often I have been in a situation where it was just going to be a pain in the butt to get a nut on the back of a bolt, so instead I used a RIVNUT and made the whole situation easier. I use this set of RIVNUTS more often than my tap and dies, more often than my air hammer, more often than a pipe bender, more than a bearing puller, a pickle fork, a hole punch... Yet almost all of those tools cost more then the RIVNUT install tool.
Photo above, left to right.
10-32, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = .062"
1/4"-20, Stainless Steel, panel thickness = 1/8"
1/4"-20, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = 1/8"
M8, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = .062"
3/8"-16, Zinc coated Steel, Knurled, panel thickness = 1/8"
1/2"-13, Zinc coated Steel, panel thickness = 1/4"
3 different size tools.
UPDATE:
If you have to remove a nutsert, I have found that you can do it one of two ways.
If there is no bolt stuck in the nutsert:
Use a drill that is the same size as the hole that you originally put the nutsert in. Drill the open end of the nutsert until the outer ring of the head comes off. Don't redrill all the way through the panel, just cut enough material off until the outer head/flange is removed. You may need to hold the insert from the back to keep it from spinning. Once the outer edge is removed, tap the nutsert through to the back of the panel.
If there is a bolt stuck in the nutsert, if it is spinning, or if you cant get to the backside to hold it from spinning:
Use a grinder with a cutoff wheel. All you need to do is grind off the flange on the outside of the panel so that you can tap the insert through the panel. Be very careful not to grind into the panel or you will make the metal too thin to hold a replacement nutsert.
Last edited by maxspongebob; 10-14-2015 at 08:49 PM.
#17
Just make sure the hole is not too big. Step bits don't offer the same diameters that you get in conventional drills. Maybe you could use the step bit just up to one hole size too small then use the exact right size conventional bit.
Also, it is a good idea to hit the nutsert with a bit of paint after the install. This will keep rust from forming between the insert and the panel. If it rusts, it will probably spin when you try to back the bolt out. If you cant get to the back side with paint, then paint the hole before you install the nutsert.
Last edited by maxspongebob; 10-14-2015 at 08:21 PM.
#19
Oh man it's almost to scary to think about. HaHa..Well I'll be installing PSC Crusher Flares on my 13 JKU soon. Just got Them back from powder coating. I'm very skeptical about the tool supplied with fastener package that came with fenders, Because I to am ocd about this kind of stuff, lol. I purchased the Astro pneumatic 13" Nut sert tool . It was recommended To me by Kjeeper10. I've done some practice with it on some 20 gauge and 22 gauge sheet metal worked great . We'll see when it Comes to the real deal on install...yup.. <img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=627279"/> <img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=627279"/> <img src="https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=627281"/> Sent from my iPad using JK-Forum
Astro Pneumatic Tool 1442 13" Nut/Thread Hand Riveter Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TODXQW..._09PiwbWTGEH07
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TODXQW..._09PiwbWTGEH07
Last edited by kjeeper10; 10-17-2015 at 12:20 PM.
#20
Some samples for your viewing pleasure.
Here is an example where the material is too thin where the nutsert is installed. The crimp was not able to grab onto the panel. The nutsert will spin.
This example shows a nutsert in a panel that is too thick. The nutsert could not properly expand because the mushroom could not form outside the hole. This nutsert may pull out of the panel.
This shows where a nutsert is installed in a hole that is not deburred. The nutsert did not install all the way and is not gripping the panel properly. This one will spin.
This is just right.
Here is an example where the material is too thin where the nutsert is installed. The crimp was not able to grab onto the panel. The nutsert will spin.
This example shows a nutsert in a panel that is too thick. The nutsert could not properly expand because the mushroom could not form outside the hole. This nutsert may pull out of the panel.
This shows where a nutsert is installed in a hole that is not deburred. The nutsert did not install all the way and is not gripping the panel properly. This one will spin.
This is just right.
Last edited by maxspongebob; 10-17-2015 at 01:11 PM.