donjuan79

I mean I can’t just let go of the wheel and continue in a straight line, it goes where it wants to go. The tech did not measure the wheelbase. He went to the passenger side and simply set the castor angle I wanted where the axle was already sitting which worked out ok, but then he just went to the driver side and adjusted to match the castor when he should have set the wheelbase first and then set the castor and pinion angles. I have the Hi-steer kit but I’ll pretty much guarantee the bump steer is coming from the fact my axle isn’t square. Same as when it’s not square using the track bar, maybe even worse. The passenger side looks real good, spring is nice and straight and so is the coil, even threw a magnetic level on the link and it’s nice and straight, but that driver side is definitely off by a half inch. I measured the LCAs on both sides and confirmed the 1/2 difference. I’m getting ready to pull them off and match the driver side to the passenger side, go to a different shop for an alignment, and then ask for my money back from the first place. Messed up thing is I told them all of this, everything is adjustable and it all needs adjusted, was assured they could handle it, and once I got there all of a sudden there’s all these extra charges for stuff they never even did and the alignment isn’t really right. Numbers look good but they were bullshitted to get there.

TheDirtman

So you installed it and blame the tech.

If you scroll thru the pages on the alignment machine it would give you wheel base but most only give you that sheet you have. Wheel bas is always taken in the measurements. You could always ask for it, it should be in the memory of the computer. Camber is out of spec likely bent C's on both sides. This does not help in your tracking down the road. If you quadruple checked how was it off by a whole 1/2"? Did MetalCloak tell you different lengths for the front control arms?

Like I said, most alignment shops are not going to adjust control arms. You put it on wrong and picked the wrong alignment shop. The only person to blame is you.

On a lifted jeep at your height the coils should be bowed a bit because if you have proper caster your lower coil perches are not sitting level.

How did they adjust your caster? Did they adjust the arms or install cam bolts?

donjuan79

my camber is barely out of spec for STOCK specs. If he had done modified specs it would still be in. My last alignment had modified camber specs and according to that I’m well within tolerance. The axle is off by a half inch because that’s how HE set it when he adjusted the arms. The arms were the exact same length when they were installed. HE is the one that set castor and pinion without setting the wheelbase first which is what both MC and Teraflex said he should have done. The only person pointing their finger at me is you. I figured I’d try to start over with you but I guess that was a mistake because you get a half ass idea of what’s going on and then blame the person for something they didn’t even do. This isn’t just some random alignment shop, they modify and sell them on their lot every day and assured me their guy could do the alignment no problem. But obviously they couldn’t and half assed it. I already got the answer I needed from Metalcloak and Teraflex, neither of which tried to point the finger at me. So thanks for the advice, but no thanks. Back to the ignore list with you.

jadmt

you can not really set driver's side and pass side caster independently of each other. the axle tubes will not twist enough and if they did you would be in terrible bind situation. not sure why you won't post photos but I agree it is common with that much lift to have bowed coils and not uncommon to have your swaybar links canted. have you actually measured your wheel base side to side?

donjuan79

I’m guessing you mean castor because camber is non adjustable. I watched the guy do the alignment, he literally loosened the passenger arms and adjusted the passenger arms to read 4.7 castor, and then went to the other side and without matching the driver to the passenger fought it to read 4.7 on that side. When he did it he said it was fighting him. And it fought him because he didn’t set the wheelbase first. He shortened the passenger arms quite a bit to get the reading and then only adjusted the driver a little to get the reading. Both MC and TF said he should have set the wheelbase first and then set castor and pinion.

Also I did try to post photos but it wouldn’t upload them and in the meantime I talked to MC and TF and they both said to just move the driver arms in the half inch. I’m not sure why you guys are trying to complicate it and make it something it’s not. I set the arms to the suggested starting point, but that suggested starting point is without drop brackets, which I also have. So I already knew that axle would be sitting too far out, that’s not my job to fix, that’s what I paid the shop $240 to do. The tech took the passenger side in a lot which ended up being a good spot, it’s not perfect either but it’s close, but he didn’t take the other side in much because he didn’t know what he was doing and never even measured the wheelbase. My rear axle is sitting too far back too and he didn’t touch anything in the back because he doesn’t have the tools or the knowledge to do it. Told me to move the uppers and lowers on both sides in around an inch but all he did was eyeball it. Another thing MC and TF said is to take it to an actual off road shop that has the tools and ability to give me the kind of printouts that I see other guys with that has the wheelbase etc etc. this was literally just a generic alignment in which he got one side in spec and bullshitted the other side into spec without the axle being square. Which is why it fought him so hard. Had he set the wheelbase on both sides with the LCAs first and then adjusted the angle with the UCAs he wouldn’t have had a fight on his hands but he was trying to force something that didn’t really wan to go. At first I thought this guy knew what he was talking about, but after all this and him talking about needing transfer case drop brackets on a JKU I figured out he really doesn’t know much. Him and the service advisor tried to tell me that GOOD lifts come with transfer case drop brackets, insinuating that MC, TF, RK aren’t good. My response to that was I’ve only seen two companies that make them, Rough Country and Daystar and you couldn’t pay me to put either of those brands on my jeep and their mouths dropped. His inability to perform this kind of alignment is probably why they sunk $20k into nodding a JL and still haven’t sold it 6 months later...because it probably rides like shit. My problem with all of this is that I was assured he could handle it, and now come to find out I should have just gone to 4 wheel parts and had it done because they would have done it right.

TheDirtman

Camber is corrected with offset ball joints, so yes you can set camber and caster independently on a solid axle. If the Tech adjusted the arms then yes the shop should fix it.
Front left camber is just out of spec but the right side is a whole half degree out which is quite a bit on an alignment. There is something a bit funky on the rear toe as well, I would also check the rear axle to make sure it is square with the jeep. You had the caster over 11 degrees out of spec, were you setting the front pinion like the rear? The toe was way out of whack too even with a tape measure you should be able to align a jeep better than that.

jadmt

yes I meant caster.

Mr.T

Typo above? Looks like 2.2 to 2.7 degrees off spec initially. In addition to checking how square the axle is, suggest checking with a tape measure and get a rough measurement of how parallel the front and rear axles are.

TheDirtman

Not a typo, bad math on my part. You are correct though. Thanks for catching that.

donjuan79

I have a printout in front of me right now from my alignment in October that shows lifted camber specs at -1.0 to .5 and according to those specs my camber is still in even if it’s near the limit. This current alignment was done with factory specs for some reason even though it was the same shop, same guy, same jeep. Only difference is lift height and adjustable components. The main reason the camber looks like that is the fact I’m running 2.75 inches of backspace. When I had 3.50 backspace the camber was only -.5

As far as the rear toe it has been like that since I got the Jeep. It was actually worse on the last alignment.

As far as setting the castor and pinion angles all I did was set the arms to the suggested starting points like anyone else that installs a lift. I received modified rear starting lengths from MC because of the rear drop brackets but they weren’t able to give me a modified front starting length with the drop brackets so they said to just start it at what it says in the instructions. So I already knew the axle would be too far forward, and that’s part of what I was paying the tech to do was fix it. But he didn’t, all he did was set the pinion and castor without setting the wheelbase first. He took one look at my angles in the rear and said he liked them but that the axle is a little too far back so I should adjust all the arms in around one inch. This is him just eyeballing it. I’m like isn’t that what I’m paying you to do? $240 and I still have to go home and adjust arms myself? I don’t think he had the ability to do it. Like I said to the other guy I think you guys are making this more complicated than it is. The problem is I went to the wrong shop. He dialed one side in but didn’t match the lengths to the other side before setting the angles. That’s why they’re different lengths now. I’m not the greatest at explaining stuff but both MC and TF knew what I was saying and said just move the arms in the half inch I need.

When it comes to the toe when I set it to the length of the factory tie rod I had some squealing in the tires when I would go around turns, that length wasn’t good anymore so I adjusted until it went away. Didn’t really care if it was right or not as again that’s what I’m paying the tech for. All of these numbers are just starting points to be dialed in by your alignment guy. The only ones I really focused on getting perfect were my track bars because I know alignment shops don’t mess with those. I asked him to double check them and he said they’re perfect just like I came up with.

In the end the only mistake I really made was not taking it to an Offroad shop and Instead taking it to a dealership that claims to know jeeps.