Caster Adjustment Needed????
#31
Something else I forgot to post on the last message. The "dartiness" you are refferring to is caused be too much toe IN. The toe needs to be set on your jeep. If its been set have them do it again with a smaller amount of toe IN or more toe OUT. I have no idea what they set the toe at for your jeep it just needs less toe. Toe IN is the front tires pointing toward each other and toe out is the front tires pointing away from each other. In simpler terms from a bird's eye view of the tires if you were to draw perpendicular line out from each of the front tires toe IN would cause the lines intersect at some point and toe out would keep the lines from ever intersecting. The idea is that toe should be set fairly nuetral and ever so slightly in because as the tires travel down the road the are trying to go toe out. Theoretically the tires peeling away from each other and the toe setting should should cause the toe to cancel or equal zero as the vehicle moves forward.
#32
With only 2 inches I find it very hard to believe that you are experiencing caster issues. I'd say you are more likey experiencing the result of moving the control arms out of parallel with the frame, which is the way your jeep came from the factory. From the factory the control arms moved up and aft as the front suspension cycled on compression. With the addition of a lift the control arms are now pointed downward (located lower in the arc of travel) now they have to move forward as they travel up in the arc on compression and the ride will be completely different than before. With only two inches a toe adjustment should be the only thing you need. If the alignment shop you are using will not explain in detail and help you understand the nuances of suspension geometry, then find another shop.
While were're at it. I'd like someone to explain to me how the caster will change in the first place. The length on the upper and lower arms is fixed as the the front end moves up and down in a vertical plane there should be no rotation of the axle. If one were to draw a line from a given point on the frame between the front and rear wheels and extend the line perpendicular to the ground the only movement that should take place is a change in distance from the center of the axles to that point as the axle cycles from full extension to full compression (assuming both left and right sides of the axle are compressed equally.) Since equal compression doesn't happen and the left and right sides move differently realative to one another there is one more movement that occurs. The distance between out imaginary line and the centerline of the axle will differ between the left and right sides of the vehicle if different rates of compression are occrring between the left and right sides of the axle. So the are three movements that take place. 1. UP AND DOWN IN THE ARC, 2. FORWARD AND AFT IN THE ARC, 3. A PIVOT FROM LEFT AND RIGHT REALATIVE TO THE CENTER OF THE AXLE BETWEEN THE HUBS.
Only during extreme driving loading can caster change and that is limited to how much the bushings will allow the axle to rotate on it left/ right centerline. Someone explain how caster changes.
While were're at it. I'd like someone to explain to me how the caster will change in the first place. The length on the upper and lower arms is fixed as the the front end moves up and down in a vertical plane there should be no rotation of the axle. If one were to draw a line from a given point on the frame between the front and rear wheels and extend the line perpendicular to the ground the only movement that should take place is a change in distance from the center of the axles to that point as the axle cycles from full extension to full compression (assuming both left and right sides of the axle are compressed equally.) Since equal compression doesn't happen and the left and right sides move differently realative to one another there is one more movement that occurs. The distance between out imaginary line and the centerline of the axle will differ between the left and right sides of the vehicle if different rates of compression are occrring between the left and right sides of the axle. So the are three movements that take place. 1. UP AND DOWN IN THE ARC, 2. FORWARD AND AFT IN THE ARC, 3. A PIVOT FROM LEFT AND RIGHT REALATIVE TO THE CENTER OF THE AXLE BETWEEN THE HUBS.
Only during extreme driving loading can caster change and that is limited to how much the bushings will allow the axle to rotate on it left/ right centerline. Someone explain how caster changes.
#33
Something else I forgot to post on the last message. The "dartiness" you are refferring to is caused be too much toe IN. The toe needs to be set on your jeep. If its been set have them do it again with a smaller amount of toe IN or more toe OUT. I have no idea what they set the toe at for your jeep it just needs less toe. Toe IN is the front tires pointing toward each other and toe out is the front tires pointing away from each other. In simpler terms from a bird's eye view of the tires if you were to draw perpendicular line out from each of the front tires toe IN would cause the lines intersect at some point and toe out would keep the lines from ever intersecting. The idea is that toe should be set fairly nuetral and ever so slightly in because as the tires travel down the road the are trying to go toe out. Theoretically the tires peeling away from each other and the toe setting should should cause the toe to cancel or equal zero as the vehicle moves forward.
#34
The first place you should road test your vehicle to after installing the lift is to a shop to have the front end aligned. The only adjustment they can and will perform is to set the toe. Caster and camber are not adjustable on these axles unless you install adjustable upper and lower control arms. Caster and camber are determined by the steering knuckles that are welded to the axle tubes. Install both the upper and lower adjustable if you intend to monkey around with the caster adjustment. You need to know what the factory caster is set at prior to installing the lift though. Then go to an alignment shop that has a very knowledgable tech that is willing to and capable of making the necesary adjustments. In my recollection previous model year wranglers come with I believe 2-3 degrees of positive caster, but I'm not certain of those numbers or if they even apply to the JK front ends. I've got 4 inches on mine and the only adjustment I've made is toe. I also drive mine 120 miles a day to and from work without any problems.
#35
When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Today I measured the control arm lenghts and the distances between the axle instant center and the upper and lower mount point for the upper and lower arms at both the axle and the frame.Then I made a drawing of the suspension using these measurements and plotted travel during extension and compression. It appears that the system is engineered to minimize the changes in movement of the of the ball joints out of their preset caster during what would be a normal cycle. As the axle moves up in compression the upper ball joint moves fwd effectively reducing caster. As the axle moves down the arcs of travel intersect and the upper ball joint moves back increasing caster. As more compression or extension is added the distance between the arcs of travel increase and near what would be the factory ride height the movement fore and aft of the upper ball joint is minimal. I can see how caster changes with the the increase in ride height. Still Since I have over 14000 miles on JK unlimited with no caster adjustment. I'd say have the alignment shop determine your individual caster and correct as needed.