Can 513 gears go in a Dana 30?
08-04-2010, 11:26 AM
#11
JK Freak
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ohhh man here we go again!!!
yes u have to replace the carrier with 3.21 gears or install a locker which takes the place of the carrier
yes the 5.13 fits the d30 with zero issues (5.13 in mine for 2 years)
yes the ring and pinion are smaller but the strength difference is negligible. unless u have a 44 or 60 and even those depending how hard u wheel, there is always a chance for breaking the teeth on the ring but its not like every other jeep with 5.13 is breaking the ring
plenty of people have seen just as many failures on all axles d30, d35, d44, d60 that were locked and not locked. if u play hardcore on the d30 then yea u will most likely break it but if u play hard core on a d44 that can break also, but fewer breakages with the d60. alot depends on the tire size thats appropriate for the the axle
yes u have to replace the carrier with 3.21 gears or install a locker which takes the place of the carrier
yes the 5.13 fits the d30 with zero issues (5.13 in mine for 2 years)
yes the ring and pinion are smaller but the strength difference is negligible. unless u have a 44 or 60 and even those depending how hard u wheel, there is always a chance for breaking the teeth on the ring but its not like every other jeep with 5.13 is breaking the ring
plenty of people have seen just as many failures on all axles d30, d35, d44, d60 that were locked and not locked. if u play hardcore on the d30 then yea u will most likely break it but if u play hard core on a d44 that can break also, but fewer breakages with the d60. alot depends on the tire size thats appropriate for the the axle
08-04-2010, 11:44 AM
#12
JK Freak
3.73 and numerically higher gears (3.73, 4.10, 4.56, 4.88, and so on) you can reuse the stock d30 carrier
by the way is your transmission auto or standard??
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
but if u plan on upgrading to 37s eventually, then just go ahead with the 5.13
by the way is your transmission auto or standard??
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
but if u plan on upgrading to 37s eventually, then just go ahead with the 5.13
..everytime I think I have my mind made up on which gears to get a read another post that makes me question it. 
Ok, here is the deal..i have an Automatic with 3.73s now. I had my mind made up to go with 4.88s as I will be running 35s and probably not go bigger. Gas mileage is a huge deal with me. I read Wayoflifes post who stated 4.88 will return it to stock performace. I am getting good gas mileage in stock performance and the RPM's are in the area I would like to stay.
Then I let people talk me into 5.13s...
...so what I want to know is if I stay with 35 tires, and go with the 4.88s like I had originally wanted to, will I get a good balance between performace and gas mileage??
08-04-2010, 11:50 AM
#13
JK Freak
by the way is your transmission auto or standard??
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
08-04-2010, 12:16 PM
#14
JK Freak
Man, this question is like asking a question about how to work out properly.....everytime I think I have my mind made up on which gears to get a read another post that makes me question it.
Ok, here is the deal..i have an Automatic with 3.73s now. I had my mind made up to go with 4.88s as I will be running 35s and probably not go bigger. Gas mileage is a huge deal with me. I read Wayoflifes post who stated 4.88 will return it to stock performace. I am getting good gas mileage in stock performance and the RPM's are in the area I would like to stay.
Then I let people talk me into 5.13s......so what I want to know is if I stay with 35 tires, and go with the 4.88s like I had originally wanted to, will I get a good balance between performace and gas mileage??
..everytime I think I have my mind made up on which gears to get a read another post that makes me question it. Ok, here is the deal..i have an Automatic with 3.73s now. I had my mind made up to go with 4.88s as I will be running 35s and probably not go bigger. Gas mileage is a huge deal with me. I read Wayoflifes post who stated 4.88 will return it to stock performace. I am getting good gas mileage in stock performance and the RPM's are in the area I would like to stay.
Then I let people talk me into 5.13s...
...so what I want to know is if I stay with 35 tires, and go with the 4.88s like I had originally wanted to, will I get a good balance between performace and gas mileage??call david, you cant go wrong there
08-04-2010, 01:01 PM
#15
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by the way is your transmission auto or standard??
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
imho if you have auto and 35's then 4.88 might be better way to go but some will say go ahead with 5.13
if you have a standard , then 4.56 or 4.88 might be better for you on 35s
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
I have an automatic.....
also got my drive shafts today! thanks
08-04-2010, 01:05 PM
#16
JK Freak
maybe this will help, the top part of that quote was mine and the bottom was david. i think the way he posted, mine and his got mixd in together
here is what he said in it:
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
here is what he said in it:
Auto and 35's you want 5.13's
Manual and 35's you want 488's or 5.13's depending on your driving habits.
4.56's are not available for the JK as far as I Know Nationwide backorder.
David
08-04-2010, 01:09 PM
#17
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I've not done any 3.21 gear swaps, but I do know that there are members here who have allegedly regeared to 5.13 from 3.21 without replacing the carrier. I've only seen a few threads on broken ring teeth on a d30 w/ 5.13's installed, but just looking at them, I can guarantee you the difference in strength is not negligible. I would feel much much safer w/ 5.13's on a d44 than a d30 with all other things being equal. It really all depends on how you wheel it. Like i said before, be careful and go easy on it, and you'll be just fine.
We tried working the original carrier for over an hour with no luck. 3:21 gears and 4:88's... I guess maybe the 5:13's ring could be a little thicker than the 4:88. The pinion for that matter too. But as much slop and backlash we were encountering my gut would say the 13's would do the same with the original carrier..
08-04-2010, 01:18 PM
#18
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I would love to know how much shim they used for the ring and pinion We tried working the original carrier for over an hour with no luck.
Originally Posted by Dynatrac
I thought I knew about these carrier breaks, thick/thin gear, ring gear bolt size, etc until I saw the post mentioned saying that guys had installed 4.88 gears on a 3.21 carrier on a Dana 30.
Some confirmed info-
In mid 07 Jeep started selling the D44 with 1/2" ring bolts.
All JK 44's use a carrier that would normally be considered 3.73 down (as opposed to 3.91 up). This means 4.88s could be installed on a case that previously ran 3.21s.
The normal ring gear flange heights for a Dana 30 case/carrier are as follows- 3.54 down:1.813", 3.73 up: 1.940". This is a .127" difference (just slightly more than 1/8"). I can see how someone might be able to do some creative shimming to make a 3.54 case fit a 4.88 gear. Remember- proper pinion depth plays a role in this too. A pinion set too deep would require less ring gear side shimming than a pinion set at the proper depth.
To the OP-
Q1) When you buy your gears and locker the sales person SHOULD know enough to get you matching parts. Be sure you get a COMPLETE install kit that uses Timkin bearings. Be aware- not all install kits have the same parts.
Q2) As mentioned earlier, you won't need to change your rear carrier/case. With the front case.....conventional wisdom says you should have to change it but there is some evidence here that clearly puts that info into question. It could be just some weird JK thing that happened or in could be that the guys installed the 4.88s on the wrong carrier and shimmed it up for fit. It would be interesting to see the flange height measurements of the cases that have carried both 3.21 and 4.88 gears.
I thought I knew about these carrier breaks, thick/thin gear, ring gear bolt size, etc until I saw the post mentioned saying that guys had installed 4.88 gears on a 3.21 carrier on a Dana 30.
Some confirmed info-
In mid 07 Jeep started selling the D44 with 1/2" ring bolts.
All JK 44's use a carrier that would normally be considered 3.73 down (as opposed to 3.91 up). This means 4.88s could be installed on a case that previously ran 3.21s.
The normal ring gear flange heights for a Dana 30 case/carrier are as follows- 3.54 down:1.813", 3.73 up: 1.940". This is a .127" difference (just slightly more than 1/8"). I can see how someone might be able to do some creative shimming to make a 3.54 case fit a 4.88 gear. Remember- proper pinion depth plays a role in this too. A pinion set too deep would require less ring gear side shimming than a pinion set at the proper depth.
To the OP-
Q1) When you buy your gears and locker the sales person SHOULD know enough to get you matching parts. Be sure you get a COMPLETE install kit that uses Timkin bearings. Be aware- not all install kits have the same parts.
Q2) As mentioned earlier, you won't need to change your rear carrier/case. With the front case.....conventional wisdom says you should have to change it but there is some evidence here that clearly puts that info into question. It could be just some weird JK thing that happened or in could be that the guys installed the 4.88s on the wrong carrier and shimmed it up for fit. It would be interesting to see the flange height measurements of the cases that have carried both 3.21 and 4.88 gears.
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...question/page2
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...hlight=carrier
08-04-2010, 01:54 PM
#19
JK Freak
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There are several relevant threads going about the need for a new carrier. This one seems to sum it up though. Still doesn't answer the question on shimming, though...
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...question/page2
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...hlight=carrier
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...question/page2
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...hlight=carrier
I'm on the fence between 5.13's and 4.88's when I get my new front d44. I'm leaning towards the 5.13's and sacrificing the gas mileage because i have the 2.72 t-case ratio with an automatic trans, so to get a decent crawl ratio I'm gonna either need 4.88's and a new t-case or keep the t-case I have with 5.13's. Also, I don't typically drive >65 mph during my daily commute, so the higher rpms aren't a real problem for me. Just my .02.