Best starting alignment numbers?
12-10-2019, 07:59 PM
#1
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Best starting alignment numbers?
Working with a 2016 Rubicon.
So I bought all 8 Core 4x4 adjustable control arms and track bars along with a TeraFlex HD tie rod and drag link kit.
Of course every Jeep is different. But my thought is we have a Firestone (not usually a fan but read on) who has a 200.00 lifetime alignment. The tech who works at this one comes highly recommended from the local jeep 4x4 groups here in town. My thought is walk in and ask to speak with him. Hand him the measurements I want to start with and palm him a hundred dollar bill. Ask him to pay special attention to details.
This is where you guys come in.
2016 Rubicon, stock 17 rims with pro comp 35’s (metric so closer to 33’s). Will upgrade rims and tires when these are worn out a bit more. Pro comp 3.5 lift.
What are your dream specs (to start with) I know these may not work out for my jeep but need to start someplace.
Next on the list is chromoly axles, sleeves and gussets. Then on to larger brakes. Then maybe a regear in anticipation for bigger tires. No more than 37’s. Want it to stay fully streetable. Although I have another car that is also a daily driver I actually like driving the jeep daily as well.
So does anyone have a set of numbers to throw my way to give the alignment tech as a good starting point? Chances are most people come to him with front lowers and/or rear uppers (if that) but I am giving him a full set to tweak.
My starting point to drive to the alignment are from core 4x4.
I don’t have the numbers on me but I will start where they suggested. They did say the track bars to start at stock + 1/4 inch. That number I can remember off the top.
Actually found them. Eye to eye.
24" Front Lower
19" Front Upper
20 3/8" Rear Lower
18 3/8" Rear Upper
1/4" Track bars over stock
So I bought all 8 Core 4x4 adjustable control arms and track bars along with a TeraFlex HD tie rod and drag link kit.
Of course every Jeep is different. But my thought is we have a Firestone (not usually a fan but read on) who has a 200.00 lifetime alignment. The tech who works at this one comes highly recommended from the local jeep 4x4 groups here in town. My thought is walk in and ask to speak with him. Hand him the measurements I want to start with and palm him a hundred dollar bill. Ask him to pay special attention to details.
This is where you guys come in.
2016 Rubicon, stock 17 rims with pro comp 35’s (metric so closer to 33’s). Will upgrade rims and tires when these are worn out a bit more. Pro comp 3.5 lift.
What are your dream specs (to start with) I know these may not work out for my jeep but need to start someplace.
Next on the list is chromoly axles, sleeves and gussets. Then on to larger brakes. Then maybe a regear in anticipation for bigger tires. No more than 37’s. Want it to stay fully streetable. Although I have another car that is also a daily driver I actually like driving the jeep daily as well.
So does anyone have a set of numbers to throw my way to give the alignment tech as a good starting point? Chances are most people come to him with front lowers and/or rear uppers (if that) but I am giving him a full set to tweak.
My starting point to drive to the alignment are from core 4x4.
I don’t have the numbers on me but I will start where they suggested. They did say the track bars to start at stock + 1/4 inch. That number I can remember off the top.
Actually found them. Eye to eye.
24" Front Lower
19" Front Upper
20 3/8" Rear Lower
18 3/8" Rear Upper
1/4" Track bars over stock
Last edited by JeepCreep661; 12-10-2019 at 08:09 PM.
12-11-2019, 08:21 AM
#2
JK Jedi
The initial thought is this. The lifetime alignment does not include adjusting control arms. Since they are not adjustable from the factory, the stores charge additional fees to monkey with those. I’d say it’s a 50/50 shot that the tech would take your $100 while on the clock cuz if they were caught, they could get in trouble. Essentially they are wasting company time to do work they shouldn’t be doing for free on company time. This probably varies from store to store and tech to tech. What I would do, and I have done myself, is get the arms installed with best starting lengths, go get it aligned. Bring it home and use an angle finder to determine what YOU read caster to be (or pinion angle). That is your baseline. If the specs from the alignment show you need to add 1* of caster, then simply adjust arms so your angle finder reads 1* more than your baseline. Factory caster is 4.2*. Most of us find happiness in the 4-5* range. It’s not an exact science. I think I’m at 4.3* myself. Start getting too much caster and you can start getting driveline vibes.
I’d start with Core’s suggestion, or look up Metalcloaks instructions and compare their advised lengths as a start. I don’t have them on the top of my head.
Don’t waste your money on sleeves. Add gussetts, replace ball joints and roll on. Chromoly axles up front aren’t as necessary as in the rear.
I’d start with Core’s suggestion, or look up Metalcloaks instructions and compare their advised lengths as a start. I don’t have them on the top of my head.
Don’t waste your money on sleeves. Add gussetts, replace ball joints and roll on. Chromoly axles up front aren’t as necessary as in the rear.
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JeepCreep661 (12-11-2019)
12-11-2019, 10:45 AM
#3
JK Jedi Master
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After seeing that lifetime deal posted a few times here on the forums, I asked at several Firestone shops in two different states when I was in the pre-purchase stages of a full set of arms. None would do an adjustable arm install as part of that lifetime alignment deal. The one shop that was willing to work on all the arms (preferably after they were already installed) wanted their standard hourly rates. Somewhere over 100/hr at the time, and they wanted a minimum of 4 hours for the work. Slipping the guy a c-note ain't gonna cut it for 8 arms, especially with the manager wondering why the tech is taking so long on a single vehicle.
Install them yourself with your best guess at lengths, do a second pass for minor adjustments, then take it in for the actual Lifetime alignment. If you don't want to do the install yourself, see if that tech will do it after hours.
Install them yourself with your best guess at lengths, do a second pass for minor adjustments, then take it in for the actual Lifetime alignment. If you don't want to do the install yourself, see if that tech will do it after hours.
12-11-2019, 10:48 AM
#4
JK Jedi
In general, I would say the lifetime alignment was worth it for me. I got one years ago for $140, and have gotten my money's worth out of it. Again though, I do my own work and use them to confirm things or just tweak toe after big changes. I can roll in there every day if I wanted to torture myself like that.
**I'd also agree that installing arms is not short task. Seems like it should be a simple 30 minute job, but it aint.
**I'd also agree that installing arms is not short task. Seems like it should be a simple 30 minute job, but it aint.
Last edited by resharp001; 12-11-2019 at 11:01 AM.
12-11-2019, 01:08 PM
#5
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
The initial thought is this. The lifetime alignment does not include adjusting control arms. Since they are not adjustable from the factory, the stores charge additional fees to monkey with those. I’d say it’s a 50/50 shot that the tech would take your $100 while on the clock cuz if they were caught, they could get in trouble. Essentially they are wasting company time to do work they shouldn’t be doing for free on company time. This probably varies from store to store and tech to tech. What I would do, and I have done myself, is get the arms installed with best starting lengths, go get it aligned. Bring it home and use an angle finder to determine what YOU read caster to be (or pinion angle). That is your baseline. If the specs from the alignment show you need to add 1* of caster, then simply adjust arms so your angle finder reads 1* more than your baseline. Factory caster is 4.2*. Most of us find happiness in the 4-5* range. It’s not an exact science. I think I’m at 4.3* myself. Start getting too much caster and you can start getting driveline vibes.
I’d start with Core’s suggestion, or look up Metalcloaks instructions and compare their advised lengths as a start. I don’t have them on the top of my head.
Don’t waste your money on sleeves. Add gussetts, replace ball joints and roll on. Chromoly axles up front aren’t as necessary as in the rear.
I’d start with Core’s suggestion, or look up Metalcloaks instructions and compare their advised lengths as a start. I don’t have them on the top of my head.
Don’t waste your money on sleeves. Add gussetts, replace ball joints and roll on. Chromoly axles up front aren’t as necessary as in the rear.
i will do exactly that.
12-11-2019, 01:09 PM
#6
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
After seeing that lifetime deal posted a few times here on the forums, I asked at several Firestone shops in two different states when I was in the pre-purchase stages of a full set of arms. None would do an adjustable arm install as part of that lifetime alignment deal. The one shop that was willing to work on all the arms (preferably after they were already installed) wanted their standard hourly rates. Somewhere over 100/hr at the time, and they wanted a minimum of 4 hours for the work. Slipping the guy a c-note ain't gonna cut it for 8 arms, especially with the manager wondering why the tech is taking so long on a single vehicle.
Install them yourself with your best guess at lengths, do a second pass for minor adjustments, then take it in for the actual Lifetime alignment. If you don't want to do the install yourself, see if that tech will do it after hours.
Install them yourself with your best guess at lengths, do a second pass for minor adjustments, then take it in for the actual Lifetime alignment. If you don't want to do the install yourself, see if that tech will do it after hours.
12-11-2019, 01:12 PM
#7
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
In general, I would say the lifetime alignment was worth it for me. I got one years ago for $140, and have gotten my money's worth out of it. Again though, I do my own work and use them to confirm things or just tweak toe after big changes. I can roll in there every day if I wanted to torture myself like that.
**I'd also agree that installing arms is not short task. Seems like it should be a simple 30 minute job, but it aint.
**I'd also agree that installing arms is not short task. Seems like it should be a simple 30 minute job, but it aint.
i have to say even though I have not installed and or used these Core 4x4 control arms they are well made. I hope to get some good use from them. They came packed in USPS priority boxes and I must say I have never seen ANYTHING EVER as well packed as these were! It took a good 5 minutes to open each box and unpack the stuff.
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12-11-2019, 04:24 PM
#8
JK Jedi
It's not hard so much as it just take some time. You run across small things like in the rear if you have bump stops, you typically have to remove em to get to the upper arm's axle-side bolt. Or things like you'll soon see how fun it is to fiddle with the rear upper arm's frame side nut which you have to hold up in the frame rail and will make you wish you had a 3rd arm if nobody is around to help you. It's good to do things like this yourself though. It's not technically difficult nor dangerous, and is good learning experience. Just double check torque on all bolts you touch, and it's a good idea to use a paint pen to mark a line so you know if they move in the future. Makes for super quick visual confirmation. You might wait to use the paint pen until after the front arms are to the length you want em (after an alignment). I'd highly suggest getting proper size crows foot for the jam nuts on the arms. Even if you have a big enough crescent sometimes they are awkward to get at. If you need a big crecent, Harbor Freight sells a massive 2' one for $25 or so. Your friends might laugh at you for owning it, but i've had a few of those same people ask to borrow it out on a trail!! You know what they say....
