Best short arm kit
12-12-2013, 07:49 PM
#31
JK Enthusiast
This is right from The Dirtmans thoughts on lift kits that you yourself have directed other people to refer to.
Raising the rear axle side track bar bracket will increase the roll center and make the Jeep feel more stable during off camber situations and on road cornering.
The front track bar needs to stay parallel to the drag link for proper steering geometry and only should be raised when in combination of a drag link flip (done typically at 3.5”+ of lift). Many bolt on lift companies will give you an adjustable front track bar to re-center your axle and a raised rear axle side bracket that raises the track bar mount by the same amount as the lift which will center the axle with the factory track bar.
Ok so MC did all that. Next, this from MC.
"We have not seen the need to raise the steering with our systems. With how our kit handles we did not see the need for it . This has a large part to do with the way the dual rate coils work. We are also not dependent on droop to the point that the drag link ends bind up."
Ok so forget about the draglink flip it's not needed.
Your whole beef seems to be centered around the rear trackbar bracket seeing as you have been complaining about it on other threads. There bracket was designed to work with their tackbar which has been designed to maximize up and down travel on THEIR system.
Then you dont like their shocks because you dont think they are sized right, except for the fact they are sized perfectly because they were purpose built for their kit.
The whole issue is this. They designed a complete kit to work together, not individual components to just bolt on to anything willy nilly. You dont understand their design of components because you dont understand its a system. You will not yield the same results by bolting on select components to any other kit.
I guess I would just say to type in metalcloak suspension into google and spend the next 12 hours reading about all the happy customers. Is that not a pretty good indicator they got it right? I'm not saying its THE be all end all of suspension but for a shock and spring production kit it sounds like they have done a pretty good job. Or all these people are lying. Because you dont understand it doesn't mean its wrong.
Raising the rear axle side track bar bracket will increase the roll center and make the Jeep feel more stable during off camber situations and on road cornering.
The front track bar needs to stay parallel to the drag link for proper steering geometry and only should be raised when in combination of a drag link flip (done typically at 3.5”+ of lift). Many bolt on lift companies will give you an adjustable front track bar to re-center your axle and a raised rear axle side bracket that raises the track bar mount by the same amount as the lift which will center the axle with the factory track bar.
Ok so MC did all that. Next, this from MC.
"We have not seen the need to raise the steering with our systems. With how our kit handles we did not see the need for it . This has a large part to do with the way the dual rate coils work. We are also not dependent on droop to the point that the drag link ends bind up."
Ok so forget about the draglink flip it's not needed.
Your whole beef seems to be centered around the rear trackbar bracket seeing as you have been complaining about it on other threads. There bracket was designed to work with their tackbar which has been designed to maximize up and down travel on THEIR system.
Then you dont like their shocks because you dont think they are sized right, except for the fact they are sized perfectly because they were purpose built for their kit.
The whole issue is this. They designed a complete kit to work together, not individual components to just bolt on to anything willy nilly. You dont understand their design of components because you dont understand its a system. You will not yield the same results by bolting on select components to any other kit.
I guess I would just say to type in metalcloak suspension into google and spend the next 12 hours reading about all the happy customers. Is that not a pretty good indicator they got it right? I'm not saying its THE be all end all of suspension but for a shock and spring production kit it sounds like they have done a pretty good job. Or all these people are lying. Because you dont understand it doesn't mean its wrong.
12-12-2013, 07:59 PM
#32
JK Jedi
I get how it all works. Your missing the point on the front and rear being different. It may all work in there kit but it could be better. Dont you think if there bracket was shorter it would maximize even more uptravel? Spring rates imo have nothing to do with steering. Its just a easy excuse for them. The rk kit cone with a front and rear bracket. Now that makes sense. I understand kits and that's why im not a kit guy there basic and not designed for each persons setup. Ive even said there kits are clearly designed for its components and there accessories like there fender you need to maximize uptravel. Its a simple way for someone to get an ok setup when they cant do it themselves...
You could use there parts in other builds if you know what your doing...
I've never said its a bad kit infact ive said its a decent kit, but its not the ONLY decent kit out there.
Lastly before i waste to much time on you is you would like me to read reviews from the Internet to have an opinion and disregard everything I've seen? Thats asinine. Half the people praising metal cloak have never even been around one..
You could use there parts in other builds if you know what your doing...
I've never said its a bad kit infact ive said its a decent kit, but its not the ONLY decent kit out there.
Lastly before i waste to much time on you is you would like me to read reviews from the Internet to have an opinion and disregard everything I've seen? Thats asinine. Half the people praising metal cloak have never even been around one..
Last edited by Maertz; 12-12-2013 at 08:10 PM.
12-12-2013, 08:04 PM
#33
JK Jedi
Since the subject of geometry has been brought up a couple times, I would be interested in someone explaining how a complete MC kit has poor geometry, especially as compared to any other kits available.
I say complete kit because I don't think we can have a level discussion if you are talking about taking an individual component of kit A and mixing it with kit B from another manufacturer.
I say complete kit because I don't think we can have a level discussion if you are talking about taking an individual component of kit A and mixing it with kit B from another manufacturer.
12-12-2013, 08:10 PM
#34
JK Enthusiast
I get how it all works. Your missing the point on the front and rear being different. It may all work in there kit but it could be better. Dont you think if there bracket was shorter it would maximize even more uptravel? Spring rates imo have nothing to do with steering. Its just a easy excuse for them. The rk kit cone with a front and rear bracket. Now that makes sense. I understand kits and that's why im not a kit guy there basic and not designed for each persons setup. Ive even said there kits are clearly designed for its components and there accessories like there fender you need to maximize uptravel. Its a simple way for someone to get an ok setup when they cant do it themselves...
You could use there parts in other builds if you know what your doing...
Lastly before i waste to much time on you is you would like me to read reviews from the Internet to have an opinion and disregard everything I've seen? Thats asinine. Half the people praising metal cloak have never even been around one..
You could use there parts in other builds if you know what your doing...
Lastly before i waste to much time on you is you would like me to read reviews from the Internet to have an opinion and disregard everything I've seen? Thats asinine. Half the people praising metal cloak have never even been around one..
12-12-2013, 08:13 PM
#35
JK Jedi
Ive already talked with then about there designs on a few things and they usually somewhat agree. I have no interest in making kits or anything. Me making my own kits and tinkering with my ideas for my jeep is plenty. Its a hobby to me not a life changing career opportunity... Im pretty sure there watching thus forum also :-)
Last edited by Maertz; 12-13-2013 at 04:52 AM.
12-12-2013, 08:17 PM
#38
JK Enthusiast
True. No Argument. In the world of bolt on one size fits all kits you can only do so much but the better ones have done pretty good at making it all work while allowing your average home mechanic put it all together. Not everyone can or has the desire to weld, design fabricate etc. Another consideration is the vast majority of folks who went out and bought a brand new 35-40k jeep probably are not going to take it home and strip it down to start over with major fabrication. The bolt on kits fill a much needed void. Thanks for the suspension stickie as well lots of good info.
12-12-2013, 08:19 PM
#39
JK Jedi
True. No Argument. In the world of bolt on one size fits all kits you can only do so much but the better ones have done pretty good at making it all work while allowing your average home mechanic put it all together. Not everyone can or has the desire to weld, design fabricate etc. Another consideration is the vast majority of folks who went out and bought a brand new 35-40k jeep probably are not going to take it home and strip it down to start over with major fabrication. The bolt on kits fill a much needed void. Thanks for the suspension stickie as well lots of good info.
12-12-2013, 08:20 PM
#40
JK Enthusiast
Ive already talked with then about there designs a few times and they usually agree for the most part. I have no interest in making kits or anything. Me making my own kits and tinkering with my ideas for my jeep is plenty. Its a hobby to me not a life changing career opportunity...
