Bad C Gusset Welds? Need Advice
01-12-2013, 07:22 AM
#41
It doesn't look like a heat problem as that would show burn holes where the metal outside the weld collapsed in. It just looks like no prep so the weld was contaminated. It's hard to tell from pictures if there was proper penetration so it is difficult to judge whether it would hold up or not.
It is a good thing that he is admitting fault but to blame the equipment is weak and troubling. I wouldn't let him do it again. Every time the metal is welded or ground it gets weaker. As mentioned the ball joints are near and could be destroyed by the heat. If he didn't recognize shitty welds when he did them, how can you let him have another whack? I would demand another welder take care of it at their cost.
It is a good thing that he is admitting fault but to blame the equipment is weak and troubling. I wouldn't let him do it again. Every time the metal is welded or ground it gets weaker. As mentioned the ball joints are near and could be destroyed by the heat. If he didn't recognize shitty welds when he did them, how can you let him have another whack? I would demand another welder take care of it at their cost.
Last edited by keithvegas; 01-12-2013 at 07:37 AM.
01-12-2013, 07:25 AM
#42
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Again looking at the glass half full on the ball joint issue.
If you have factory ball joints then will be worn out soon anyhow. So even if they did put to much heat into them at least it was already on your list of items to upgrade.
Although since it looks like a cold weld the ball joints probably did not get too hot. You can look at the boot of the ball joint and see if it looks melted or cracked at all. Also looks for grease around the ball joint. If it has a really thin watery looking grease around the ball joint then they did "cook" them.
If you have factory ball joints then will be worn out soon anyhow. So even if they did put to much heat into them at least it was already on your list of items to upgrade.
Although since it looks like a cold weld the ball joints probably did not get too hot. You can look at the boot of the ball joint and see if it looks melted or cracked at all. Also looks for grease around the ball joint. If it has a really thin watery looking grease around the ball joint then they did "cook" them.
01-12-2013, 07:33 AM
#43
JK Freak
Read the first couple pages... I'm a failure analysis engineer and I look at failed parts for a heavy equipment company all day, every day. This is a junk weld. The bead isn't consistent, and those holes you mentioned are from oxidation of the weld material due to the welder holding the welder tip too far away from the parts. When you are too far away from the weld surface, you get splattered, inconsistent welds, like yours, because the gas shielding on the welder is limited to a very small area immediately in front of the welder tip. I was able to take a 2 day welding class a couple months ago at my company, and after two days (the only time I've ever welded) my welds were much cleaner than that. This is what some of my first beads looked like, when I was moving to fast and I was too far away. For reference, I paid $300 on my last rig to do the whole EVO sleeve, gusset, and skid package welded in. On this rig I paid $80 to the dealership for 1 hour of labor to weld the gussets and skids on. There is NO WAY IN HELL you should have paid $260 for 6 beads of weld that took them an hour or less to do.
01-12-2013, 07:37 AM
#44
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It doesn't look like a heat problem as that would show burn holes where the metal outside the weld collapsed in. It just looks like no prep so the weld was contaminated. It's hard to tell from pictures if there was proper penetration so it is difficult to judge whether it would hold up or not.
It is a good thing that he is admitting fault but to blame the equipment is weak and troubling. I wouldn't let him do it again. Every time the metal is welded or grinder it gets weaker. As mentioned the ball joints are near and could be destroyed by the heat. If he didn't recognize shitty welds when he did them, how can you let him have another whack? I would demand another welder take care of it at their cost.
It is a good thing that he is admitting fault but to blame the equipment is weak and troubling. I wouldn't let him do it again. Every time the metal is welded or grinder it gets weaker. As mentioned the ball joints are near and could be destroyed by the heat. If he didn't recognize shitty welds when he did them, how can you let him have another whack? I would demand another welder take care of it at their cost.
Ill take it back, and make sure a different welder does the work. .
And thanks again for input. Really appreciated because this was bothering me for a week before I made this thread.
01-12-2013, 07:40 AM
#45
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Read the first couple pages... I'm a failure analysis engineer and I look at failed parts for a heavy equipment company all day, every day. This is a junk weld. The bead isn't consistent, and those holes you mentioned are from oxidation of the weld material due to the welder holding the welder tip too far away from the parts. When you are too far away from the weld surface, you get splattered, inconsistent welds, like yours, because the gas shielding on the welder is limited to a very small area immediately in front of the welder tip. I was able to take a 2 day welding class a couple months ago at my company, and after two days (the only time I've ever welded) my welds were much cleaner than that. This is what some of my first beads looked like, when I was moving to fast and I was too far away. For reference, I paid $300 on my last rig to do the whole EVO sleeve, gusset, and skid package welded in. On this rig I paid $80 to the dealership for 1 hour of labor to weld the gussets and skids on. There is NO WAY IN HELL you should have paid $260 for 6 beads of weld that took them an hour or less to do.
01-12-2013, 08:16 AM
#46
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Man, that's a horrible job. I found a local guy on craigslist that was MIG certified in "all positions". He did the
work as a side job for a little extra money. I met him at his garage and made him show me some of his work
first. After a few beads, I could see he was doing a great job. I was very happy and he only charged me $50 to
do just the C-gussets. I will definitely be using him for other stuff. But $260??? I hope you can have them
fix it, or redo it after they order you new c-gussets.
Good Luck
Jeremy - Lincoln, NE
work as a side job for a little extra money. I met him at his garage and made him show me some of his work
first. After a few beads, I could see he was doing a great job. I was very happy and he only charged me $50 to
do just the C-gussets. I will definitely be using him for other stuff. But $260??? I hope you can have them
fix it, or redo it after they order you new c-gussets.
Good Luck
Jeremy - Lincoln, NE
01-12-2013, 12:10 PM
#48
JK Junkie
If your going to get some welding work done. Have him show you their work laying around the shop, have them weld scrap in front of you or look at their Certification plates. I know I have to certify every year since I work on aircraft.
The problem with gusset's you cant see the back side of it to tell if the welds are getting correct penetration. Too little and it will snap under little stress. Over penetration is just as bad the backside will look all bunched up and not like a stack of dimes. I know I will spend more time prepping the weld and less time welding it. My instructor always said welding is 90% prep 10% welding. Not preparing and cleaning the welding area will introduce foreign materials in the weld and will cause it to fail down the road.
As for the ball joints yes you have to watch them. Wrap a damp rag around the area that does not need heat or they make welding putty to block heat but those products dont work that well. As for pre-heating the area before you start to prevent cold starts yes you can do this with an acetylene torch but most good welders dont need to do this. As we just look for the pool to appear start slow and adjust heat as the material warms up.
The problem with gusset's you cant see the back side of it to tell if the welds are getting correct penetration. Too little and it will snap under little stress. Over penetration is just as bad the backside will look all bunched up and not like a stack of dimes. I know I will spend more time prepping the weld and less time welding it. My instructor always said welding is 90% prep 10% welding. Not preparing and cleaning the welding area will introduce foreign materials in the weld and will cause it to fail down the road.
As for the ball joints yes you have to watch them. Wrap a damp rag around the area that does not need heat or they make welding putty to block heat but those products dont work that well. As for pre-heating the area before you start to prevent cold starts yes you can do this with an acetylene torch but most good welders dont need to do this. As we just look for the pool to appear start slow and adjust heat as the material warms up.
01-12-2013, 06:14 PM
#49
JK Freak
01-13-2013, 09:10 AM
#50
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With welds, it's all about looks. It has to be neat and uniform to be strong. Sorry if this point hasn't been made already :P