3.5" RockKrawler Max Travel System vs. 3.5" AEV DualSport SC Suspension
04-11-2012, 07:51 AM
#11
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I agree that all the companies mentioned are good companies and you will not go wrong with any of them.
The thing I have to adress is the ignorance in the statement regarding getting only a set of brackets. That is completely uncalled for. We should try and help others relying on us to understand the real differences between lift kit companies and not just say something like all you get is some brackets for the money.
You should know that with the dual Sport set up you get much more than brackets. The Bilstein 5100 shocks are custom tuned to work perfectly with the special frequency tuned coil spring that work as a matched set front and rear for great performance when driven over the road and at high speeds over rough road conditions. Some other companies use off the shelf shocks and off the shelf coil springs and just settle for them being close enough. At AEV it's the engineering behind the complete system setup that sets them apart from all the others. It is engineered by bonifide former Jeep engineers unlike the other companies mentioned. The raised rear Track bar bracket is strong and works great. The front Drag Link is flipped on the knuckle and is parrallel with the Track bar that is raised with a tower provided that provides the proper geometry in the steering system. This provides a higher roll center which is a good thing. There's actually quite a bit more included that I will get into if requested.
Like I said, I believe the others are good reutable companies. It's not that at all. I just couldn't let the remark about only getting brackets go unchallenged.
Again, I hope this helps others.
The thing I have to adress is the ignorance in the statement regarding getting only a set of brackets. That is completely uncalled for. We should try and help others relying on us to understand the real differences between lift kit companies and not just say something like all you get is some brackets for the money.
You should know that with the dual Sport set up you get much more than brackets. The Bilstein 5100 shocks are custom tuned to work perfectly with the special frequency tuned coil spring that work as a matched set front and rear for great performance when driven over the road and at high speeds over rough road conditions. Some other companies use off the shelf shocks and off the shelf coil springs and just settle for them being close enough. At AEV it's the engineering behind the complete system setup that sets them apart from all the others. It is engineered by bonifide former Jeep engineers unlike the other companies mentioned. The raised rear Track bar bracket is strong and works great. The front Drag Link is flipped on the knuckle and is parrallel with the Track bar that is raised with a tower provided that provides the proper geometry in the steering system. This provides a higher roll center which is a good thing. There's actually quite a bit more included that I will get into if requested.
Like I said, I believe the others are good reutable companies. It's not that at all. I just couldn't let the remark about only getting brackets go unchallenged.
Again, I hope this helps others.
Regarding your comments to a previous poster, I think the set of brackets comment that was made is still valid from the standpoint that AEV reuses the stock control arms with AEV relocation brackets that hang down lower than the stock factory brackets. Because the brackets hang down, they are more likely to hit something. Also, reusing the stock control arms will not provide as much articulation as something made by RK. I'm not bashing AEV, that is how their lifts work. People that buy the AEV kit spend their money on the same components that are in other lifts like springs, shocks, etc..., but instead of getting new control arms, AEV customers get relocation brackets for about the same price as the kits with new stronger control arms that provide more articulation. I think that is why the previous poster made the bracket comment.
You mention the AEV custom tuned shocks and make a blanket statement that other companies use off-the-shelf shocks as if other companies are taking shortcuts. That is a blanket statement that is untrue in several cases. Teraflex has their own shocks for customers that want them. Teraflex even has the Fox shocks and Elka shocks that have been tuned to work with their suspensions. RK also has their own custom tuned shocks that are built in-house and matched to their suspensions, but they give you the option to purchase any shock that you want to use. EVO sells King shocks that are custom tuned to their suspensions.
Since the OP referenced the RK 3.5" Max Travel and the AEV kits as choices, I guess you aren't aware that the RK kit also has the drag link flipped that you seem to think is only something that AEV does. I also understand that some engineers that used to work for Jeep and now work for AEV have worked on or designed these kits. It makes for great marketing to say "Jeep Engineers" built the lifts, but you don't have to be a Jeep engineer to build great suspensions. If that was the case, nobody would be replacing the stock JK suspensions because we all know how great the Jeep engineers are that made them.
Last edited by bo9roadking; 04-11-2012 at 07:56 AM.
04-11-2012, 07:56 AM
#12
Former Vendor
They are just very different systems. Both are quality in their own right!
Both have high steer up front!
Both have roll center corrections front and rear!
Both have quality coils.
Our method of caster correction is to use adjustable high clearance lower control arms and with the 3.5" Max. Travel System, you also get front upper adjustable control arms to further dial in the front end!
In the rear, we supply you with high clearance adjustable control arms for the lowers and double adjustable arms for the uppers! We also put provisions in the system to push the rear axle back 1". This is important so you can run 37's down the road without having to cut your pinch weld seams. It makes our 3.5" systems really flexible for tire size!
We supply you with heavy duty track bars and bracketry front and rear, stainless steel brake lines front and rear, adjustable sway bar end links front and rear (the fronts have a disconnect option).
We offer our exclusive abuse proof lifetime warranty on all hard parts.
We have spent alot of time testing and tuning our ride quality. We feel our ride quality is up to par with anyone. Our mid arms systems are really well designed for all adventures. They handle well, they ride well, they handle overland expedition driving well, and of course they crawl well.
If you have any questions, please let us know. Good luck with your build..
RK
Both have high steer up front!
Both have roll center corrections front and rear!
Both have quality coils.
Our method of caster correction is to use adjustable high clearance lower control arms and with the 3.5" Max. Travel System, you also get front upper adjustable control arms to further dial in the front end!
In the rear, we supply you with high clearance adjustable control arms for the lowers and double adjustable arms for the uppers! We also put provisions in the system to push the rear axle back 1". This is important so you can run 37's down the road without having to cut your pinch weld seams. It makes our 3.5" systems really flexible for tire size!
We supply you with heavy duty track bars and bracketry front and rear, stainless steel brake lines front and rear, adjustable sway bar end links front and rear (the fronts have a disconnect option).
We offer our exclusive abuse proof lifetime warranty on all hard parts.
We have spent alot of time testing and tuning our ride quality. We feel our ride quality is up to par with anyone. Our mid arms systems are really well designed for all adventures. They handle well, they ride well, they handle overland expedition driving well, and of course they crawl well.
If you have any questions, please let us know. Good luck with your build..
RK
04-11-2012, 09:08 AM
#13
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AEV makes great stuff and that is who you chose for your Jeep. There is nothing wrong with that and even though this thread is old and has been revived from a few months ago, I'm guessing the OP has already made a decision on whether to purchase AEV or RK.
Regarding your comments to a previous poster, I think the set of brackets comment that was made is still valid from the standpoint that AEV reuses the stock control arms with AEV relocation brackets that hang down lower than the stock factory brackets. Because the brackets hang down, they are more likely to hit something. Also, reusing the stock control arms will not provide as much articulation as something made by RK. I'm not bashing AEV, that is how their lifts work. People that buy the AEV kit spend their money on the same components that are in other lifts like springs, shocks, etc..., but instead of getting new control arms, AEV customers get relocation brackets for about the same price as the kits with new stronger control arms that provide more articulation. I think that is why the previous poster made the bracket comment.
You mention the AEV custom tuned shocks and make a blanket statement that other companies use off-the-shelf shocks as if other companies are taking shortcuts. That is a blanket statement that is untrue in several cases. Teraflex has their own shocks for customers that want them. Teraflex even has the Fox shocks and Elka shocks that have been tuned to work with their suspensions. RK also has their own custom tuned shocks that are built in-house and matched to their suspensions, but they give you the option to purchase any shock that you want to use. EVO sells King shocks that are custom tuned to their suspensions.
Since the OP referenced the RK 3.5" Max Travel and the AEV kits as choices, I guess you aren't aware that the RK kit also has the drag link flipped that you seem to think is only something that AEV does. I also understand that some engineers that used to work for Jeep and now work for AEV have worked on or designed these kits. It makes for great marketing to say "Jeep Engineers" built the lifts, but you don't have to be a Jeep engineer to build great suspensions. If that was the case, nobody would be replacing the stock JK suspensions because we all know how great the Jeep engineers are that made them.
Regarding your comments to a previous poster, I think the set of brackets comment that was made is still valid from the standpoint that AEV reuses the stock control arms with AEV relocation brackets that hang down lower than the stock factory brackets. Because the brackets hang down, they are more likely to hit something. Also, reusing the stock control arms will not provide as much articulation as something made by RK. I'm not bashing AEV, that is how their lifts work. People that buy the AEV kit spend their money on the same components that are in other lifts like springs, shocks, etc..., but instead of getting new control arms, AEV customers get relocation brackets for about the same price as the kits with new stronger control arms that provide more articulation. I think that is why the previous poster made the bracket comment.
You mention the AEV custom tuned shocks and make a blanket statement that other companies use off-the-shelf shocks as if other companies are taking shortcuts. That is a blanket statement that is untrue in several cases. Teraflex has their own shocks for customers that want them. Teraflex even has the Fox shocks and Elka shocks that have been tuned to work with their suspensions. RK also has their own custom tuned shocks that are built in-house and matched to their suspensions, but they give you the option to purchase any shock that you want to use. EVO sells King shocks that are custom tuned to their suspensions.
Since the OP referenced the RK 3.5" Max Travel and the AEV kits as choices, I guess you aren't aware that the RK kit also has the drag link flipped that you seem to think is only something that AEV does. I also understand that some engineers that used to work for Jeep and now work for AEV have worked on or designed these kits. It makes for great marketing to say "Jeep Engineers" built the lifts, but you don't have to be a Jeep engineer to build great suspensions. If that was the case, nobody would be replacing the stock JK suspensions because we all know how great the Jeep engineers are that made them.
I hope this helps.
04-12-2012, 09:30 AM
#14
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Hello,
I'll start out saying I'm just a newb, but Iv'e read everything I can to try and figure out what lift to get. In my opinion the RK kit is the way to go if you plan on hard off-roading and want to spend the money. No matter what anyone says the AEV system has drawbacks off road. Articulation isn't as good and neither is clearance. There is another less expensive option that uses the drop brackets like AEV. It's the Rancho 4 inch sport system. Rancho just released a new version and you can find it for under $1100 with shocks and get a $500 rebate until June 1st. It doesn't have a procal to to correct your spedo and such or the jack base, but other than that it does everything the AEV kit does at a much lower price and the Rancho drop brackets are stronger. The price is low enough that you can add control arms or whatever later if you feel the need and still save a ton. I do know that everyone that installs the AEV kits will tell you they are the best thing ever, so they must be doing something right. I will be installing the Rancho kit like bazilions of others that are very happy with them and pocketing a boatload of cash for future mods.
Here'e a link to a thread here about the Rancho kit. It's long, but worth the read.
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...e-try-one-here
Here's a link to a thread here with Rancho's new kits released yesterday!
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...or-the-Jeep-JK
Gary
I'll start out saying I'm just a newb, but Iv'e read everything I can to try and figure out what lift to get. In my opinion the RK kit is the way to go if you plan on hard off-roading and want to spend the money. No matter what anyone says the AEV system has drawbacks off road. Articulation isn't as good and neither is clearance. There is another less expensive option that uses the drop brackets like AEV. It's the Rancho 4 inch sport system. Rancho just released a new version and you can find it for under $1100 with shocks and get a $500 rebate until June 1st. It doesn't have a procal to to correct your spedo and such or the jack base, but other than that it does everything the AEV kit does at a much lower price and the Rancho drop brackets are stronger. The price is low enough that you can add control arms or whatever later if you feel the need and still save a ton. I do know that everyone that installs the AEV kits will tell you they are the best thing ever, so they must be doing something right. I will be installing the Rancho kit like bazilions of others that are very happy with them and pocketing a boatload of cash for future mods.
Here'e a link to a thread here about the Rancho kit. It's long, but worth the read.
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...e-try-one-here
Here's a link to a thread here with Rancho's new kits released yesterday!
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...or-the-Jeep-JK
Gary
04-12-2012, 05:55 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by moabicon
I know RK makes quality products as well. Thanks for the input. Several lift companies use control arm brackets that hang down lower than stock, not too disimilar from AEVs. The reason AEV does it is to capture proper geometry after lifting the vehicle. If the control arms are not fairly parrallel with the ground then it negatively affects handling on the street. Regarding the Draglink flip, I know others are offering it as well and I only mentioned it as a response to, "only getting brackets for the money with AEV". Again, not true. AEV kits come with custom tuned shocks included in the base price so you aren't paying extra for them like with some other lift companies. I am not convinced that new control arms provide any more articulation than stock, unless they are true long arms. Regarding control arm strength, aftermarket ones are stronger than stock but I'm not convinced they are needed. Unlike TJ stock arms the JK lower arms are longer and much stronger, and the end bushings are made to last >100k miles.
I hope this helps.
04-12-2012, 06:40 PM
#16
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Flex (meaning down travel and up travel) comes from shock length, control arm length, and from bumpstop height (up travel). Not from the ends. If you want more flex then you'll need to go with taller shocks and control arms that are longer than stock.
I don't believe the stock arms hinder flex versus aftermarket mid arms that are the same length. So long as the joints allow the arms to rotate how could they reduce flex? I do believe that most aftermarket LCAs are heavier and stronger than stock. So far I haven't bent or damaged any of mine. (Did I just jinx myself?)
Also, the stock mid arms have ends that are engineered to last >100k miles.
04-13-2012, 03:21 AM
#17
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??
Flex (meaning down travel and up travel) comes from shock length, control arm length, and from bumpstop height (up travel). Not from the ends. If you want more flex then you'll need to go with taller shocks and control arms that are longer than stock.
I don't believe the stock arms hinder flex versus aftermarket mid arms that are the same length. So long as the joints allow the arms to rotate how could they reduce flex? I do believe that most aftermarket LCAs are heavier and stronger than stock. So far I haven't bent or damaged any of mine. (Did I just jinx myself?)
Also, the stock mid arms have ends that are engineered to last >100k miles.
Flex (meaning down travel and up travel) comes from shock length, control arm length, and from bumpstop height (up travel). Not from the ends. If you want more flex then you'll need to go with taller shocks and control arms that are longer than stock.
I don't believe the stock arms hinder flex versus aftermarket mid arms that are the same length. So long as the joints allow the arms to rotate how could they reduce flex? I do believe that most aftermarket LCAs are heavier and stronger than stock. So far I haven't bent or damaged any of mine. (Did I just jinx myself?)
Also, the stock mid arms have ends that are engineered to last >100k miles.
Gary
04-13-2012, 03:54 AM
#18
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Well, here's the idea. When one side of the axle goes down and the other goes up the end joints on the aftermarket arms rotate allowing for more articulation/travel. The stock arms(bushing) do not have end links that allow for this. It also causes more stress on the stock bushings, because of the twisting motion in the bushing, which is why they fail sooner if you unlock the front sway bar and off road a lot especially with the extra travel a lift gives. I also think when people refer to flex there is more to it than just up and down travel of the axle. It refers more to the different corners of the jeep to being able to travel across varying levels of terrain the at the same time while keeping the jeep upright. If the axle was traveling up and down while it's parallel to the ground all the time then flex really wouldn't matter and only travel would. You can choose to believe that the stock arms don't hinder flex if you want too, but it doesn't change the fact that they do. For now I will have a lift that uses the sock arms. I don't need the extra flex and I like the idea that there is less maintenance, but I'm not gonna fool myself into believing it will have as much flex as a system with after market arms that have some kind of flexible ball joint. It's all about compromise and what's best for your needs, simple as that!
Gary
Gary
What he said!!!!
04-13-2012, 06:54 AM
#19
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I don't disagree much with what he said either. But, I do know that the stock control arm end bushings DO allow for enough twisting so that as the axle articulates there is no noticeable binding or hinderence. And they should last as long or longer than the aftermarket bushings. Most travel limitations are caused by shock length and control arm length. That's what I believe from my own personal experience of a few years pretty hard core wheeling in the rocks of Colorado.
We each have our own opinions and that is great.
Good Wheeling!
We each have our own opinions and that is great.
Good Wheeling!
04-13-2012, 07:27 AM
#20
Former Vendor
To some extent, shock length is the ultimate determining factor with how much articulation you will achieve. But, for a given shock length, looking at the dynamics of the situation is the best thing to do.
OEM bushings are not designed to allow for a good deal of articulation. Yes, they are designed to last 100k miles for street use, not for off-road abuse. When an OEM bushing is asked to articulate it requires bushing distortion or a "stress" to be put on the bushings. This stress is also seen by the mounting brackets, which is one of the causes of control arm mounts ripping off the axle. Since the mounts are pretty thin, they will experience fatigue if stressed too many times and off they come. The converse is a spherical joint of some type at the axle connection. As the axle articulates, there is little to no stress required for joint movement. Thus, there is no stress put back in the brackets.
We try to design the most robust products we can and allow consumers to have as much fun as possible with the least likelyhood of failure. Our new joints do not even need to be serviced for 3 to 5 years under normal conditions making them the most consumer friendly joint in the industry. All of our hard parts are designed to last a lifetime!
Hope that helps give you all some insight about joint connections, articulation requirements, etc.
RK
OEM bushings are not designed to allow for a good deal of articulation. Yes, they are designed to last 100k miles for street use, not for off-road abuse. When an OEM bushing is asked to articulate it requires bushing distortion or a "stress" to be put on the bushings. This stress is also seen by the mounting brackets, which is one of the causes of control arm mounts ripping off the axle. Since the mounts are pretty thin, they will experience fatigue if stressed too many times and off they come. The converse is a spherical joint of some type at the axle connection. As the axle articulates, there is little to no stress required for joint movement. Thus, there is no stress put back in the brackets.
We try to design the most robust products we can and allow consumers to have as much fun as possible with the least likelyhood of failure. Our new joints do not even need to be serviced for 3 to 5 years under normal conditions making them the most consumer friendly joint in the industry. All of our hard parts are designed to last a lifetime!
Hope that helps give you all some insight about joint connections, articulation requirements, etc.
RK