Centuryhouse

Hi all - I'm new to the forum, and wanted to get some opinions.

I recently picked up a used 2015 Rubicon with 4" lift (unknown type) and 35x12.50/r18 tires. It pulls left a little when driving and at highway speed pulls and also feels very squirelly / darty at speed.

The dealer agreed to pay for an alignment so I wasn't too concerned. That said the alignment (toe only) did nothing. Neither did a new stabilizer (I've run into the issue before where a positive charged stabilizer will push steering left).

I posted the alignment report and wanted opinions on the numbers it shows please.

Some facts:

- with someone turning the wheel back and forth and me under the Jeep I see nothing loose, moving where it shouldn't or clunking/popping

- I don't have every wrench or socket I need; but with the ones I have everything was already tight

- non-adjustable control arms

- drag link has a slight upward bow, like it may have hit a rock which I missed originally. It rotates very easily by hand and quite a bit of travel; no up / down or side to side movement (alignment shop made no mention of it being bent / bowed)

Input appreciated. Money is VERY tight at present so hoping I can figure this out on my own (with your help, thanks in advance).

resharp001

Please take some pictures from the front that show the steering components head on, then snap some pictures of controls arms mounting both axle and frame side. Is that a factory axle? I'm curious to see how you're reaching 6* of caster with factory control arms unless that is an aftermarket axle with 10* caster built in. Pictures of ball joints, springs and shocks....in addition to rear seat up would be nice too. We can help identify things.

Centuryhouse

I have no reason to think someone would have replaced the Rubicon stock axle. I'll get pics later when it is light.

As to the alignment report - do those specs look about as they should for a 4" lift or no?

resharp001

Camber is what it is assuming your ball joints are in good shape. That is not adjustable unless you use offset BJs, but that really isn't something you're going to do on this jeep IMO. The caster seems high based on what I think you're working with, but that should be helping, not hurting. It just doesn't make lot of sense how that his being achieved right this moment. The thing that immediately stands out is the 4" lift, and I'm not going to be surprised if that turns out to be a Rough Country lift with drop pitman arm and lowered track bar brackets. When we see the pictures it will be easier to identify things that are going on. The alignment specs themselves don't scream anything except for "how is the caster that high with a factory axle and control arms?" Even with control arm brackets and cam bolts you're not going to raise caster that much with a factory setup and 4" lift, so we shall see.

Centuryhouse

It never occurred to me that someone would do a 4" lift and not install new control arms. Then again, if installing new control arms it would have made sense to go with adjustible.

I've read before that cam bolts are a terrible way to go but don't know what/where they are. When I get pics, where would I look for cam bolts?

resharp001

Cam bolts are installed in the axle's lower control arm mounts. The amount of adjustment they offer is pretty minuscule, so that is not likely what is getting caster so high, but it also doesn't eliminate the prospect of them being there.

Oh, you'd be shocked. Most modded jeeps you see on the road aren't done very well be that the owner's lack of knowledge or lack of budget. Most of the time it comes down to owners not knowing what they don't know, combined with shops and companies pushing less than ideal kits in the process of turning a profit. People see a 4" lift for $750 and pull the trigger. They are just in it for the looks and figure they don't need to spend a ton cuz they're not building some true offroad beast not realizing all the money and effort is spent for on-road handling and not necessarily offroad capability. The problem buying modded vehicles is always figuring out what the previous owner did, or did not, do.

Centuryhouse

Amen to that! Here are pics. Pardon the dirt, hasn't been cleaned up yet.

resharp001

A couple quick observations -

1) you do have a drop pitman arm installed. That is something RC tends to do for their "high steer" kit and it's a big effing headache. You want to keep those frame side mounts high and instead raise the axle side mounts. The preferred thing here is to keep the factory pitman arm and flip the DL to mount on the top of the knuckle, which requires a DL that will allow you to do that. It's cheaper to add a drop pitman arm than it is to replace a DL....so this is where that "budget" is factoring into a lift kit. Sometimes we'll see them drop the frame side track bar mount as well but in this case it looks like they raised the axle side, which is the proper thing. The rear axle-side TB bracket is raised which is good, rather than frame-side being lowered.

2) you have both cam bolts AND control arm brackets, and that is how caster is so high. Again, high caster isn't really the issue here as long as you're not getting driveline vibes. There's 6* caster built into that axle, so at 6.3* your pinion is actually pointing ever so slightly down, increasing the angle the DS runs to the transfer case. That appears to be the factory DS up front and dang, that CV joint at the TC side has to be in agony. It can't be long for this world at that angle. The boot over the CV joint will rip and spew grease, dry the joint out, and lead to failure. You will see the sign of grease slung in a line on the underside of the tub over that joint when it happens.

3) it looks like the BJs have been replaced as the factory ones have no grease zerk. They could be Synergy or the like, or they could be moogs. Hard to tell from the picture.

4) you have a mess at both diffs. You might look at Lube Lockers as they are a nice seal that is reuseable. You also might have a leaking axle seal at driver's front but hard to tell. That C looks a bit wet in the backside picture.

It's kinda up to you where you go from here. You should at least revert back to a factory pitman arm and get a DL that you can flip IMO. I think that will resolve some of your issue. Some will say to scrap the lift and start over with a quality setup that is not as high. I can't disagree with that thought process either. 4" is not really necessary and it isn't doing you any favors at all. You can also work with what ya got. If you want to remove cam bolts they do have eliminator "kits" that will pop in place and fill up the hole in the bracket.

Centuryhouse

Thanks for taking the time to give input.

Why would the CV be at an odd angle and what would resolve that?

Some of the abbreviations are unclear to me such as a "C" and a "DL".

I don't have any experience with pitman arms; if this isn't the original, how difficult is installing one and how costly is buying one? Why would it help either the leftward pull or the 'squirrely' steering?

As to some saying 'scrap the whole kit and start over', I have seen that on many other threads here. While it might be optimal if I were a rich man, I'll have to hold off. I just lost my job, am one payday away from losing everything, and only got this Jeep as a last second emergency trade to keep me in transportation as I gave up my nicer, newer correctly lifted Willys edition Wrangler.

chiapeteater

DL = Drag Link

"C" = the part of the front axle out towards each end that hold the knuckles on with the ball joints. When you go with larger tires some of us weld gussets on to them to reinforce them and keep them from bending or breaking.

This is a picture of a reinforced "C" without the knuckle or ball joints installed.

When I had my diffs regeared I had the "C"'s gusseted at the same time since they had the axle shafts pulled out and I was also having Rare Parts ball Joints installed. If you have yours gusseted, a good time to do it is when swapping out ball joints as the heat from welding can potentially ruin the ball joint if it is in place while doing it.