2012 JKR — Uncorrectable DW after multiple attempts
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I've had my 2012 two-door JK Rubicon to the shop three time as we're trying to fix a death wobble issue. Can't figure it out. Wobbles very apparent from 45 mph up to ~60 mph, especially hitting a bump within those ranges. Crippling DW occurs—have to slow to a stop for it to go away.
I've looked at planman's material.
History:
• Moderately offroaded about ten times, but never thrashed...
• RK 2.5" Max Travel kit installed with OME shocks (stock driveshafts), with LCAs and track bar set to RK's specs
• Stock SS replaced with Superlift SS kit that brings it up above the tie rod
• All greasable fittings are greased
• Ball joints are good
• Vehicle and stock 32" KM2 tires have 38k miles on them, five-tire rotated every 5k miles
• Axle-side track bar bracket had Grade 8 washers welded to each side of the track bar mounting hole to sure-up the oblonged hole
1.) First time to shop: brought it in first time for an alignment and to check all suspension/steering joints, mounting bolts, and jam nuts. Frame-side track bar bolt found to be loose and tightened. Everything else is fine. Jeep aligned and caster is about 6º. Toe brought in to ~1/8". Still had the problems.
2.) Second time to shop: check everything again, and they want to get the caster to the stock 3º or so. The toe was out again this time in the alignment, brought it back in to ~1/8". I mentioned that the knuckle-side drag link joint moved slightly up and down when cycling the steering: was assured that the amount of movement was normal and not to worry (I'm worried this is seeding the problem).
3.) Relunctantly let them install cam bolts on the axle-side lower control arm mounts to bring the caster back to around 3º. Not sure if this is going to negatively affect my front driveshaft, even though I reminded them that it's a CV design. They assured me it's fine. Already having adjustable LCAs, I was very hesitant to let them put another point of adjustment in that area, especially since I crawl in the rocks and a lot of force is exerted for things to get bumped out of spec. The tech also removed my SS while doing this and noticed that the middle 3–4" of travel offered no resistance at all—only when you got the shaft to the extended or compressed positions would it offer any resistance.
It drives fines now, but I still get vibes from 45–55 mph. It doesn't seem that it goes into full-on DW mode as much anymore, but it's gotten close twice and I just hate always having to worry about needing to have a way out on the highway so I can pull over. I just don't know what else to do.
My last ditch efforts are to rotate the tires (they're due anyway), get them balanced, replace the drag link with something beefier (at least replace the knuck-side joint/shaft), and throw on a dual steering stabilizer setup like Superlift's to dampen vibes that seed the DW.
I know these DW issues are common and require just going through everything that can cause them, but this one is pissing me off—I'd like to get things ironed out before I go to 37s.
Thanks for the help.
I've looked at planman's material.
History:
• Moderately offroaded about ten times, but never thrashed...
• RK 2.5" Max Travel kit installed with OME shocks (stock driveshafts), with LCAs and track bar set to RK's specs
• Stock SS replaced with Superlift SS kit that brings it up above the tie rod
• All greasable fittings are greased
• Ball joints are good
• Vehicle and stock 32" KM2 tires have 38k miles on them, five-tire rotated every 5k miles
• Axle-side track bar bracket had Grade 8 washers welded to each side of the track bar mounting hole to sure-up the oblonged hole
1.) First time to shop: brought it in first time for an alignment and to check all suspension/steering joints, mounting bolts, and jam nuts. Frame-side track bar bolt found to be loose and tightened. Everything else is fine. Jeep aligned and caster is about 6º. Toe brought in to ~1/8". Still had the problems.
2.) Second time to shop: check everything again, and they want to get the caster to the stock 3º or so. The toe was out again this time in the alignment, brought it back in to ~1/8". I mentioned that the knuckle-side drag link joint moved slightly up and down when cycling the steering: was assured that the amount of movement was normal and not to worry (I'm worried this is seeding the problem).
3.) Relunctantly let them install cam bolts on the axle-side lower control arm mounts to bring the caster back to around 3º. Not sure if this is going to negatively affect my front driveshaft, even though I reminded them that it's a CV design. They assured me it's fine. Already having adjustable LCAs, I was very hesitant to let them put another point of adjustment in that area, especially since I crawl in the rocks and a lot of force is exerted for things to get bumped out of spec. The tech also removed my SS while doing this and noticed that the middle 3–4" of travel offered no resistance at all—only when you got the shaft to the extended or compressed positions would it offer any resistance.
It drives fines now, but I still get vibes from 45–55 mph. It doesn't seem that it goes into full-on DW mode as much anymore, but it's gotten close twice and I just hate always having to worry about needing to have a way out on the highway so I can pull over. I just don't know what else to do.
My last ditch efforts are to rotate the tires (they're due anyway), get them balanced, replace the drag link with something beefier (at least replace the knuck-side joint/shaft), and throw on a dual steering stabilizer setup like Superlift's to dampen vibes that seed the DW.
I know these DW issues are common and require just going through everything that can cause them, but this one is pissing me off—I'd like to get things ironed out before I go to 37s.
Thanks for the help.
Last edited by C2U5H; 11-06-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Not understanding why the cam bolts if you have adjustable control arms. The vibration at 45-55 sounds like a balance issue. Also check you track bar hole where the bolt was loose to make sure it's not oblong.
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I feel your pain, I haven't had DW in a while but anytime I feel a slight twitch of the steering wheel I am preparing for the worst. 45/55 mph sounds more tire issues.
My draglink moved a little so I replaced(easy and cheap), If you are planning on going 37s then you probably have big enough lift and should do draglink flip anyway.
My draglink moved a little so I replaced(easy and cheap), If you are planning on going 37s then you probably have big enough lift and should do draglink flip anyway.
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if it were me i would first go get tires balanced....drive it...if u get more dw take it straight to tire shop and recheck balance...if u have thrown off a weight or the tires wont balance well i would say thats ur problem...if balance is good then u can atleast rule that out...
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I feel your pain, I haven't had DW in a while but anytime I feel a slight twitch of the steering wheel I am preparing for the worst. 45/55 mph sounds more tire issues.
My draglink moved a little so I replaced(easy and cheap), If you are planning on going 37s then you probably have big enough lift and should do draglink flip anyway.
My draglink moved a little so I replaced(easy and cheap), If you are planning on going 37s then you probably have big enough lift and should do draglink flip anyway.
if it were me i would first go get tires balanced....drive it...if u get more dw take it straight to tire shop and recheck balance...if u have thrown off a weight or the tires wont balance well i would say thats ur problem...if balance is good then u can atleast rule that out...
Thanks for the input., everyone. Any further thoughts are welcome, of course...
Last edited by C2U5H; 11-07-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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I went through the same thing to find out my bolt holes on the frame for the LCAs were slightly wallowed out. welded some thick washers on both sides and havnt had a problem since. good luck
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What you see here are two Grade 8 washers welded to the stock track bar mount on the axle. The fully-welded washer on the right is matched with another on the other side of the mount. The partially welded washer on the left simply acts as a spacer for the Superlift steering stabilizer relocation bracket that mounts to this location.
Last edited by C2U5H; 11-07-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Your shop is incompetent.
It makes no sense to install cam bolts with adjustable arms.
They did not properly torque the track bar bolts during the install--which led to the problems in the first place.
The DW from the loose track bar bolts likely was the cause of the damage of the knuckle side drag link end--which needs to be replaced if it is loose enough that it clunks during a dry steering test and/or moves up and down when tested with channel lock pliers.
Remove the cam bolts (requires welding washers or plates over the holes they knocked out) and adjust the arms to somewhere between 4 and 4.5 degrees caster.
Replace the worn drag link end.
Thoroughly inspect everything else in my written checklist.
Retorque your suspension bolts at every oil change interval.
It is fixable. Just don't drive it until you at least replace the drag link end.
It makes no sense to install cam bolts with adjustable arms.
They did not properly torque the track bar bolts during the install--which led to the problems in the first place.
The DW from the loose track bar bolts likely was the cause of the damage of the knuckle side drag link end--which needs to be replaced if it is loose enough that it clunks during a dry steering test and/or moves up and down when tested with channel lock pliers.
Remove the cam bolts (requires welding washers or plates over the holes they knocked out) and adjust the arms to somewhere between 4 and 4.5 degrees caster.
Replace the worn drag link end.
Thoroughly inspect everything else in my written checklist.
Retorque your suspension bolts at every oil change interval.
It is fixable. Just don't drive it until you at least replace the drag link end.
Last edited by planman; 11-07-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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The ONLY thing I haven't done yet is balance the tires, which was stupid, but since I'm getting 37s as soon as I sell my motorcycle, I didn't want to waste the money on that. I'm going to do it anyway after I put the dual SS setup on if the bike doesn't sell soon.
I think that's my plan for the time being.
Thanks for the input., everyone. Any further thoughts are welcome, of course...
I think that's my plan for the time being.
Thanks for the input., everyone. Any further thoughts are welcome, of course...
Also I've got a taller lift but a drag link flip did wonders for my death wobble issues. I just got new axles and am selling my old flip kit if you're interested.