spartan99

It's possible to have a conversation about the topic without blaming anything on a party. Makes no sense to go there. Some over the top environmentalists are politically conservative. Some lean to the left. OP didn't ask about political parties. It seems as though traffic is way down on this site and I think it's stuff like this that turns people off. Lot of smack talk here too. Not the friendliest Jeep site. Religion and politics just seem to have a way of pushing people away so it's nice when people can share their Jeep pleasures without touching on those topics. Just a thought that's all. No biggie.

GJeep

Exactly.

jk_sea

Makes sense, but environmentalism and Jeeps/ offroad vehicles is one of those, "mommy, where do babies come from?" type questions. There are no easy answers unless you want to lie. Those of us including you who have probably been around long enough to have seen a favorite road or trail become off-limits to offroad use know that there's a battle going on. Maybe it's different in other areas of the country, but here in the Northwest it's become absolutely contentious.

Cutman

I agree. The same stuff made me quit Facebook.

BlackRockBurner

And it isn't just off-road vehicles. Mountain bikes that tear up trails or spook horses that bolt and injure their riders. I know some think a 2" wide tire on a bike can't possibly do damage, but it sure can. It's all about courtesy, respect and Leave No Trace.

mikeJKUR

This is what I am talking about. Really a bicycle is damaging a trail? A tire track is damage....

lkjk

is it impactful - yes. It isn't good for the environment, in terms of pollution, using fossil fuels for recreation, etc....however building those 'zero emission' vehicles does the same thing, just in a factory.

Personally I think it speaks more to the quality of the trail than the vehicles - if you build a trail right (and this is coming from someone who used to build a ton of mtb trails) it will handle a ton of traffic with minimal upkeep - build/route it wrong and it will look like jeeps tear up the land in a short amount of time.

litter/shells/drunk people are a different story. In CO i see it but it seems to be more the ATV/rzr/amateur crowd than jeepers. I would say jeeping is extremely respectful and there are trails in CO that have been here for hundreds of years - yes the rock makes the routes less important that places without it, but I think its more a function of how well built the trail is.

GJeep

What you say is very true over here too.

Soil trails, especially the narrower ones, are more damaged by the ATV/rzr/amateur crowd, not by Jeepers.
However, the vast majority of damage to soil trails is caused by the winters.
It is usually the Jeepers who fill, with rocks, the deep grooves made by water flow, or remove rocks or trees that fell onto trails, after each winter.
Those trails are also very important as fire fighters' access, so the repairs done by Jeepers serve more than just the Jeep owner.

Mark Doiron

Ever listen to Toyota owners talk? "It's them Jeep clubs who tear up our trails and get us banned!" So, without wanting to start a turf war, just want to say I agree with your statement above, but regardless of who's doing the trail maintenance. Also want to point out that by keeping trails clear, we help keep the lazy people, whatever they ride or drive, on the trails.

GJeep

I didn't elaborate about the situation in Israel as it would have been off-topic.
We simply don't have the 'one 4x4 brand against another brand'. There's a general fraternity between various 4x4 owners, be it a Toyota, Jeep, Mitsubishi, Nissan, a small Suzuki, or whatever.
Highly modded Jeep owners here don't feel a need to downgrade the owner of a stock Land Cruiser or FJ.
Obviously, similar-minded offroaders tend to cling together, but they typically don't go against "the others".
I guess that's possible because we're a smaller country.