JK Diesels
#11
While I don't know the answer, I suspect it has mostly to do with marketing studies. People still remember Detroit's (GM's) attempt at diesel engines in the 80's. Smokey, noisy and unreliable. They also look at their local gas stations and how few of them pump diesel. So, the perception from most automakers is American's aren't interested in diesel. We prefer big gas engines.
My personal opinion is there's a large number of consumers who, like myself, would welcome small diesels. If automakers offer them, I think they'd find many more like me. Look at Jeeps CRD Liberty. IIRC, they anticipated a 5000 unit test run. They sold over 10,000. But, that engine didn't meet the 2007 US diesel emission requirements and Chrysler apparently didn't believe the market was big enough to invest what it would take to get it to meet those requirements.
My personal opinion is there's a large number of consumers who, like myself, would welcome small diesels. If automakers offer them, I think they'd find many more like me. Look at Jeeps CRD Liberty. IIRC, they anticipated a 5000 unit test run. They sold over 10,000. But, that engine didn't meet the 2007 US diesel emission requirements and Chrysler apparently didn't believe the market was big enough to invest what it would take to get it to meet those requirements.
#12
We don't use high sulfur diesel in the US any more (exception Alaska) US required all Diesel fuel be Low sulfur as of Oct. 15, 2006...most diesel stations had it by Dec. 2006.
The main issue we have is that the US emissions standards for Diesel is more stringent than that of Europe...regarding CO2 and NO/NO2 and particulates (5 of the 50 states states anyway) this is why the european manufturers are working on Emissions systems like Urea (Bluetec), particulate canisters and direct injections...more efficient and less particulates. The main issue is that the new emissions sysems and higher tech engines cost more money and if there is no current market share for diesels why invest in production itooling, etc if it ends up sitting on a lot or sells to 2-3% of the market. That is why the only jeep offering is on the Grand Cherokee...premium product.
I think that chrysler is missing the boat as this will be an emerging trend in the U.S market...makes sense for higher mpg, (when you compare fleet mpgs) and ease of transition for our infrastructure vs. electric, hydrogen etc. Utilizing the 3.0 Bluetec from mercedes or their relationship with Cummins is already proven and in their product offerings and could provide JEEP with a unique proposition...the only (or first) brand to offer a diesel solution in each of their models.
I am hoping that Cerebus is able to see the benefit in the long term and that outweighs any concerns about initial sales. It is going to be up to the Enthusiast community to demand such offerings...as we are usually the return customers
The main issue we have is that the US emissions standards for Diesel is more stringent than that of Europe...regarding CO2 and NO/NO2 and particulates (5 of the 50 states states anyway) this is why the european manufturers are working on Emissions systems like Urea (Bluetec), particulate canisters and direct injections...more efficient and less particulates. The main issue is that the new emissions sysems and higher tech engines cost more money and if there is no current market share for diesels why invest in production itooling, etc if it ends up sitting on a lot or sells to 2-3% of the market. That is why the only jeep offering is on the Grand Cherokee...premium product.
I think that chrysler is missing the boat as this will be an emerging trend in the U.S market...makes sense for higher mpg, (when you compare fleet mpgs) and ease of transition for our infrastructure vs. electric, hydrogen etc. Utilizing the 3.0 Bluetec from mercedes or their relationship with Cummins is already proven and in their product offerings and could provide JEEP with a unique proposition...the only (or first) brand to offer a diesel solution in each of their models.
I am hoping that Cerebus is able to see the benefit in the long term and that outweighs any concerns about initial sales. It is going to be up to the Enthusiast community to demand such offerings...as we are usually the return customers
I think you hit the nail right on the head!!
We [USA] now have ULSD [15ppm Sulfur] fuel at the pump and the manufacturers are working hard on DP filters and the like to make even the toughest states happy.
This was a change-over year for diesel fuel and, if memory serves, even the diesel liberty was dropped for 2007. My guess is that starting this fall we will see more and more US models offered with a diesel engine option. How long it will take to see one in a JK is still an educated guess at best.
I've been patient - so far!!
#14
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Western Australia
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I have the diesel Im pretty happy with it, although I dont think it pairs well with the 6 speed manual Im constantly changing gears. Im starting to skip 5th etc, im getting used to it. It certainly makes more noise than the petrol but once its warmed up you dont notice it much.
I only have 2200kms on myne so itll take a little while longer before its fully loosened up but I can certainly notice less noise and more power than when I picked it up. Its not as fast as my XJ was but you arent going to slow traffic down. It has a massive intercooler for a factory job, I dont notice much of a turbo lag. It rev's pretty high at highway speeds, about 2700rpm at 110km/hr (68mph) red line is 3something RPM, good excuse for bigger tyres I say! Im getting about 10 litres / 100km which is 23 miles per gallon.
It comes with a optima yellow top from the factory which is very suprising. The diesel cost me $4000AUD more which is about $3500USD.
I only have 2200kms on myne so itll take a little while longer before its fully loosened up but I can certainly notice less noise and more power than when I picked it up. Its not as fast as my XJ was but you arent going to slow traffic down. It has a massive intercooler for a factory job, I dont notice much of a turbo lag. It rev's pretty high at highway speeds, about 2700rpm at 110km/hr (68mph) red line is 3something RPM, good excuse for bigger tyres I say! Im getting about 10 litres / 100km which is 23 miles per gallon.
It comes with a optima yellow top from the factory which is very suprising. The diesel cost me $4000AUD more which is about $3500USD.
#15
also, they would have to replace the entire info structure....all the holding tanks are sulfer enriched, so its to expensive to allow diesel in a way....they would have to replace all tanks to allow the use of them
#16
I did some more digging and it turns out the euro diesels wont run on the high sulfur american fuel. clogs the direct injection. Australia went to the low sulfur arround 2002 and then BMW, Merc, and others were able to bring their diesels.
just wait till your petrol goes up to euro like prices and watch the public demand for diesel cars go through the roof.
just wait till your petrol goes up to euro like prices and watch the public demand for diesel cars go through the roof.
#18
I have the diesel Im pretty happy with it, although I dont think it pairs well with the 6 speed manual Im constantly changing gears. Im starting to skip 5th etc, im getting used to it. It certainly makes more noise than the petrol but once its warmed up you dont notice it much.
I only have 2200kms on myne so itll take a little while longer before its fully loosened up but I can certainly notice less noise and more power than when I picked it up. Its not as fast as my XJ was but you arent going to slow traffic down. It has a massive intercooler for a factory job, I dont notice much of a turbo lag. It rev's pretty high at highway speeds, about 2700rpm at 110km/hr (68mph) red line is 3something RPM, good excuse for bigger tyres I say! Im getting about 10 litres / 100km which is 23 miles per gallon.
It comes with a optima yellow top from the factory which is very suprising. The diesel cost me $4000AUD more which is about $3500USD.
I only have 2200kms on myne so itll take a little while longer before its fully loosened up but I can certainly notice less noise and more power than when I picked it up. Its not as fast as my XJ was but you arent going to slow traffic down. It has a massive intercooler for a factory job, I dont notice much of a turbo lag. It rev's pretty high at highway speeds, about 2700rpm at 110km/hr (68mph) red line is 3something RPM, good excuse for bigger tyres I say! Im getting about 10 litres / 100km which is 23 miles per gallon.
It comes with a optima yellow top from the factory which is very suprising. The diesel cost me $4000AUD more which is about $3500USD.
It wasnt until I had about 6-7000 when it started to rev out a bit harder.
#19
Jeep offer the Volkwagen 2 litre deisel into the Patriot and the Compas here in Australia and the same motor into the Dodge Caliber.It is the 2 liter motor that VW put in the Jetta.
what I am trying to say is it is a pity that Jeep did not keep going the VW way with the Wrangler and offer the 2.5 litre VW instead of the VM.
My other car it a VW Jetta deisel and it flys.But there is on thing I cant Drag at the lights or even think of catching and that is the 2.5 litre deisel VW Transporter Van.They absoulutly motor.Everytime one of those vans tears past I think of what could have been if Jeep kept on using the VW product in the Wrangler.(probably lose my license for speeding)
They put the v6 Merc Deisel in the Grand Cherokee.Same motor that is in the 300C.Arent they something.
what I am trying to say is it is a pity that Jeep did not keep going the VW way with the Wrangler and offer the 2.5 litre VW instead of the VM.
My other car it a VW Jetta deisel and it flys.But there is on thing I cant Drag at the lights or even think of catching and that is the 2.5 litre deisel VW Transporter Van.They absoulutly motor.Everytime one of those vans tears past I think of what could have been if Jeep kept on using the VW product in the Wrangler.(probably lose my license for speeding)
They put the v6 Merc Deisel in the Grand Cherokee.Same motor that is in the 300C.Arent they something.
#20
I remember seeing Burnsville Offroad was working on putting a 3.0 Bluetec in a JK wrangler...last I heard they had the engine and was working on a swap...they even had a link on the website. What I find curious is that link is gone and there has been no updates. Burnsville was going to be my hope and Glory for seeing a JK wrangler with a 3.0 diesel and see how it performed.