jeepmojo

i thought it causes engine failure to much ethonol ????
is this where hes heading us ? fill your new 2011 and 2012 up with this and see how long you get out of your engine ????? http://autos.aol.com/article/ethanol...::eek2::what?:

Alias

It's part of the auto industry bailout. This way vehicles die faster causing more business to the dealerships.

BKGM Jeepers

E85 results in a nearly 30% decrease in gas mileage. That doesn't count the corrosion problems of the fuel blend and related higher maintenance costs.

Good luck with that solution.


Does anyone know the most efficient fuel source for ethenol? It's not corn, but we continue to subsedize the industry.

sa29560

Ethanol? using a substance which is used in more than half of the food all of mankind consumes to make the fuel that all of us use?

Doesn't sound good.

Then again when oil is gone, shit will really go nuts

^^^^^^^ i know mustard and the seeds are a valuable bio fuel as well.

Still wouldn't run it in the JK

cyberfalco

In Brazil they sell pure ethanol and build cars to run on it. Made from sugar cane.

Mark Doiron

I wish this county could have a discussion about the benefits and the disadvantages of ethanol-laced gasoline without it turning it to everyone taking up political sides. When OP starts the thread with a title that points a finger at one individual, it says that this thread will immediately become a useless place for people to bellyache instead of discuss the truth.

I'd really like to know why I can't get 20.5 MPH in my Jeep like I did when it was new. Okay, pick yourself up off the floor if you've looked at my mod list. Obviously, I've hurt the gas mileage. But, what I mean is there wasn't really anything but real gasoline in 2007 when I bought my Jeep. That started when oil prices soared later in the year. If gas was the same today as it was back then, what would my gas mileage be? I do go to gas stations that claim to have pure gas, but I'm suspicious that they don't. Sometimes I can get about 16 MPG from gas stations while traveling on the Interstate. They don't say whether they have pure gas or not. But, here in Oklahoma I'm lucky to get that 13.5 while driving at Interstate speeds--it doesn't matter whether I fill on base (ethanol-laced) or at Wal-mart (100% gas supposedly).

What's up with that? The rhetoric (and I'm inclined to agree with it) is that pure gas will give better gas mileage. Consumer Reports even tested it and confirmed that fact (gas vs E85 in a flex-fuel vehicle). I'd sure be interested in some truth here. What about the gas that's used to determine the fuel efficiency numbers displayed on new vehicles? Did you know that is a scientifically-controlled blend that is not commercially available? They don't burn what you and I burn. What kind of test is that (besides reproducible, LOL)?

As for the ethical choice of burning a food product up: Yes, there is that. But, if we weren't burning it up for food, would it get to the world's hungry? My inclination is to say, that no, there are certain elements in American society that would ensure that we don't incur yet more debt to feed those who do not live in this country. And, what is the wisdom of burning up a product that is useful in the making of some of the most widely used chemical compounds in the world: petroleum. There is a limited supply. How are we going to continue after it's all burned up? There is an argument to be had over whether burning oil at all is very smart.

As for arguments to open up new areas for exploration by American oil companies: When they fully explore all of their available leases, please make that case. Until then, they are simply taking advantage of the American public's anger over gas prices. Don't be a dupe to them.

Repo503

Yeah its not like ethanol production started with Obama. The corn lobby (likely the largest in Washington) has been dreaming this up for awhile. They are not content with the profit margins of putting corn into virtually everything you consume.

Corn syrup, starch and/or oil is added to french fries, peanut butter, saltines, steak sauce, table salt, margarine, iced tea, fruit juice (even ones that claim to be 100% juice), "raw" honey, fish sticks, soy milk, wine, beer, liquor, chicken nuggets, flour, barley, caramel, Vitamin C, vanilla extract, vinegar and/or yeast. Corn-derived glycerin is found in almost every soap, lotion, toothpaste and shampoo.

The meat you eat (even fish) is likely to have been corn fed and just about anything you can't pronounce on a label is likely to be corn derived.

Good to know we eat so much of something that is so nearly undigestible that whole kernels will pass through your digestive system unscathed.

Also good to know that more than 5 billion of our tax dollars goes to the US corn industry annually.

All of this has been going on for decades. If you are only now alarmed because they are moving into yet another market you've been asleep at the wheel my friends.

The real answer to the fuel question is something else entirely, but we are unlikely to make meaningful strides towards it until we run out of oil or experience a corn famine (not that far fetched since most corn is the same americanized strain.)

BKGM Jeepers

Fact a Chevy tahoe on gas gets 12-14 mpg in town and 9-10 on E85.

I don't care hat you say but E85 lacks the thermal energy capability of true gasoline.

Also, Corn is not the optimal fuel source for ethenol. It is sugar cane, then followed by sugar beets BEFORE corn. That means it takes a lot more corn to generate an equivelent amount of ethenol than sugar cane does. This is why Brazil is the worlds number one producer of ethenol, and the US won't be able to catch up. The Ethenol subsedies started with Bush (yes, I'm a republican),and have been carried with the current administration.

I hate people harping about Ethenol is the answer. It may be a stopgap, but it won't ever be part of a permanent solution. Why not use Compressed natural gas as an alternative fuel source? It's also readily available in the US.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

WCDAVE

The problem is is that Ethanol is a political issue. There is not a market for it unless it is forced upon you. It can only be forced upon you through government fiat and the associated subsidy. You as a gas consumer do not benefit, mind you, but you were not part of negotiating the boon-doggle, so your interests were not considered. Unfortunately, corrupt politicians from both sides of the aisle conspired throw bones to the environmental lobby, the farm lobby and -- believe it or not -- the oil lobby. They all make out like bandits, the cost of your fuel goes up, the cost of your food goes up, and the mileage you get from a gallon of fuel goes down, your engine decays faster and -- here's the best part -- any environmental gains made through reduced emissions is more than offset by the additional fuel burned to travel the same distance and the emissions produced in the production of the ethanol itself. It is completely and utterly worthless. People are coming around, but sadly, government subsidies have built an industry around this concession that is becoming it's own lobby. This is why people are becoming more and more alarmed by the spending our federal government insists on perpetuating. OK, rant over.

jcrcan25

maybe they could make fuel from illegal aliens!! solve lots of problems!!