Chance

Ordered my 4 door Rubicon August 15th. It's in E status now.

Perzuki

Buck380 is right to be upset. So is everyone here who laid their money down and were told it would be a four to six week wait for their new Jeep, only to be still waiting for that vehicle six months later.

That's not "whining." It's not "bitching." It's an honest reaction to a promise recited as fact by a dealer they chose to trust . . . in short, a promise broken.

Doesn't matter whether the dealer outright lied or made that false promise on bad information from the factory management or even whether the misinformation came from factory management's management. The result was the same. The guy feels betrayed.

If, as you say, a Rubicon Unlimited order takes "an average of 8 months to build," (and is that JEEP talking or is that just YOU talking?)

there is still no reason for management (and/or management's management) NOT to share those time frames with participating dealers and, through that dealer network, with their customers.

Why, in fact, should YOU be the only one who is privy to the knowledge that a 4-door Rubicon is gonna take, "on average, EIGHT MONTHS to build"?!! Ever think about sharing this with a few dealers, chief? Like, you know, maybe EIGHT MONTHS AGO?!!

Hey! Anyone here remember their dealer telling them they'd have to wait EIGHT MONTHS for their vehicle? Didn't think so. (Maybe they just hadn't talked to "Ghostship"!)

How many here were told the wait would be "four to six weeks?"

Now - I'll also say (again) that my particular dealer, Mike Motors in Ely, Minnesota, has thus far delivered on everything they promised - and have kept me informed every step of the way. I don't know who "Ghostship" is or who he represents (I hope he doesn't represent Chrysler Daimler), but I DO know I've found an actual Jeep dealer who has so far earned my trust in spades . . . . and many thanks to them.

Duane Behrens, Ely, Minnesota

yetibear

OK Duane, its time to knock of the cheap childish attacks on Ghostship. He like everone else in the waiting room from hell is.....well waiting. He has no control over when you get your damn Jeep so give the guy some slack. He has proved himself right more often then wrong. He doesn't claim to have inside information, but he does have more of a working knowledge of how the system works.
Weather you like what he says or not, your track record here leaves little room for the kind of personal attacks your using. You want to be upset with Jeep or your dealer, thats fine, thats no excuse for your outright rudeness toward Ghostship. You come here and ask the questions, don't take it out on him because you don't like the answer. Keep it civil in here, or don't foul the air in our waiting room.

mbridenour

I just ordered my Rubicon Unlimited on 10/03/07. I shopped 4 dealers and the wait times I was quoted ranged from one dealer saying 9-12 months, another said 6-9 months, The dealer I ordered from said 8-12 weeks, most likley 12 weeks, they also gave me a great price. I had looked on here before I ordered and thought I was prepared for the wait. This Jeep is just a second vechical for us. But now that I made the move and ordered, the wait is tough. I went to BX for two weeks then back to BG, I started to get hopeful when I see some folks getting there jeeps in 8 weeks. Oh well

Perzuki

And by the way, "Ghostship?" These continual insults of yours ("you obviously don't know what you're talking about," "please enlighten me", "whiners", "bitchers", etc. ad nauseum) seems an odd way to treat customers who have put down real money in good faith . . . and are still waiting for the product they were promised, six months after it was promised to them. I mean, REALLY - try to get a grip, chief . . . these people are, or should be, in your camp. . .

Perzuki

I'M not personally upset with Jeep, or with my dealer. (Obviously, you didn't read the last paragraph of my post #2668.)

Nor have I "attacked" "Ghostship". I HAVE, actually, taken issue with his belittling of other members here. It's inappropriate, it's unnecessary, it's against the rules. Insults like "you obviously don't know what you're talking about" is hardly acceptable behaviour on this or any list, and I'm surprised your defending him. Anyone can - and should - lash out against crap like that.

Oh, and he may not BE an insider (i.e. Jeep employee or manager), but he certainly pretends to BE one. Here's a recent quote from "Ghostship":

'Allocation' is defined as 'the number of vehicles DCX will allow a particular Dealership to order/receive based on that Dealership's previous years sales numbers.' Thus, Dealerships with a higher sales volume last year will get to order more vehicles this year. The concept is simple, Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge wants to sell as many vehicles as they can, so rather than sending units to a low-sales dealership where they'll just sit on the lot for months, they send them to Dealerships whose track record proves they will be able to sell them quickly.

To understand how Allocation effects(sic) your order, we should revue (sic) the Order Process of your Jeep. First, when your vehicle is ordered by the Dealership, it gets entered into the Dealer Direct computer system and is assigned BA status (Ordered). As a Sold Customer Order, this will receive a preferential build priority above the other Dealer's orders for their inventory. The Assembly Plant takes over the process from here.

The plant will edit the order for errors, then assign it BG status (passed edit- not available for schedule). It will then move back and forth between BG and BX status (passed edit - available for schedule) until it is picked for Build Out. How it does/does not get picked is a detailed process.

For any given month, DCX needs to determine how many vehicles the Wrangler Plant needs to produce, within the given constraints. Those constraints are: the speed of the assembly line, UAW work agreements, worldwide sales quotas for each of the different model configurations, parts availability, dealer sold orders, dealer inventory orders, etc.

So this shakes out like this:
Reduced Line Speed at 50% of Capacity (30 units per hour instead of the normal 60), UAW contract only allowing 9hours/day, 6 day a week, 2 shifts/week; high demand for 4Door vs 2Door models, Hard Top issues, Rubicon parts availability issues, MyGig issues, etc. This amounts to 583 JK's a day, ~3500/week, ~14000/month.

Those 14000 JK's are comprised of (some numbers are estimations): 4x2(1000), 2Door X(1850), 4Door X(6550), 2Door Sahara(712), 4Door Sahara(2520), 2Door Rubicon (303), 4Door Rubicon(1065). Each of those individual totals are further broken down into Options such as Soft Top/Hard Top/Dual Top/Full Door/Half Door/Colors, etc. Then the Dealer Orders are broken down by a ratio of Sold Units to Dealer Inventory Units, and Location (State/Region). Predefining build quotas in this way prevents DCX from making 84,000 White 4Door 4x2 Soft Top JK's per year, with the other 84,000 being Lime Green Sahara 2 Doors, and shipping them all to Alaska.

So, for each month the Assembly Plant's production schedule has available slots to fill, the numbers of which are more or less limited to the above quotas. To fill those slots, the Assembly Plant looks to the Dealer Direct order system and selects orders at least one month out. When all slots have been filled for the next month's production run, it's termed 'Build Out'. The Order Status codes then get changed to reflect the intended schedule, complete with VIN #'s, estimated Day of Production, Estimated Day of Shipping, etc.

So how does your Order get picked for one of the slots? Let's say you've ordered a Rescue Green 2Door X with Dual Tops. Your order will move from BG to BX status, and compete for selection against the other orders in the system. Understand that out of the 14,000 slots being filled, there may only be room on the schedule for 3 Rescue Green 2Door X's with Dual Tops for your whole State that month. The oldest Sold Orders get considered first. Let's say there were two older than yours that get picked, and you're now being considered for the last slot.

Now there is a check for Parts Availability for your particular order. If the Hard Top supplier hasn't been able to keep up with demand, for instance, you won't pass the check. The selection process stops right there for you, your Status Code goes to BGL (passed edit - parts unavailable), and someone else's order fills that slot. When the parts become available, you go back to BG/BX status and compete for the next month's Build Out.

Let's say you're lucky enough to pass edit and all parts are available, your status moves to C (sub firm). Now is the point of the Order Process where Dealer Allocation becomes important. The System determines whether or not your dealer has Allocations available for that month. If they do, then you go to D status (firm schedule - dealer has allocation and all parts available) and you're on your way. On the other hand, if your dealer didn't have allocations available that month, you go back to BG/BX status and compete for the next month's Build Out.

It is possible to be picked up for a Build in the middle of the month. Let's say you've ordered a Soft Top, and there is a sudden shortage of Hard Tops. They don't shut the line down waiting for the parts supplier to get their act together. Instead, they grab Soft Top orders to fill in the spaces until the Hard Top orders can resume their place in line. In this example, some future JK owners will be surprised to find out that their Jeeps are getting built quicker than expected, while others will be disappointed to learn that their estimated Production Date has been postponed.

Another thing to consider is that DCX is receiving an average of 1000+ orders per day, while only able to build 583 per day (current orders outstanding are 49,972). So the number of orders you are competing against for Build Out can be significant, especially if you've ordered a Rubicon with Hard Top (current Rubicon Orders outstanding total 11,870 with a daily build of only 57).

Perzuki

And by the way, "Ghostwolf's" explanation of the workings of the company and the factory were appreciated and studied, by me and many others here I'm sure. In fact, were it not for his belittling comments toward others on this list, I'd be his biggest fan here.

I guess . . .

. . . . although I must say that anyone who reads his authoritative posts must be troubled by the fact that he SEEMS to represent the Jeep Company, without ever posting his name or title.

So, what's the deal? Is "Ghostwolf" company brass? Former company brass? Future company brass?

Or is he just another abandoned Iraq veteran, chasing shrapnel in his head and writiing company policy from a Starbucks in the bad part of Chicago?

Knowing his qualifications, one way or the other, would certainly help me - all of us - understand whether we should consider or dismiss his apparently-knowledgeable, helpful essays.

And please . . . don't bother going off on me because "Ghostwolf's" articles are "true," and/or because I have no "track record" here. That's lame, and you know it. I'm just another customer, using this list as it was meant to be used; that is, exploring the challenges and looking for the solutions related to Jeep ownership.

It's all good. Peace.

Element

Hey - am I reading this right? According to DC status updates, you were in D-1 on 10/21 and it arrived AT YOUR DEALER on 10/23? This gives me hope since I'm still in D-1 since 10/18 with a "ship date" of 10/27.

As for Perzuki - give it a rest with Ghostship. I HAVE bitched and whined and questioned and vented, as have many, many others in this forum because it was fruitless to do so (after multiple attempts) to DC or the dealer. Lots of people were not so fortunate to have their Jeeps delivered in 6-8 weeks and this forum provides a place to share the frustration with the system and the wait. Over that time, Ghostship has had a lot of constructive information to share. Whether his information was 100% accurate or not I'll never know, but it sure helped get through a ridiculous wait that we don't have any control over.

inajeep

I've been stuck for two days in QC.

That ship date for Garybtt was good news. I asked the CS rep on appx time to NJ from OH and she kinda stuttered through 7-10 business days. Sounds like a safe std answer to me but I wasn't expecting her to know it anyway.

Perzuki

Well, if "venting your frustrations" is all you were looking for from this list, I'm glad you found it helpful.

Looking over past posts on the subject seems to indicate that ordering the following models/options/items may delay your order by weeks, or perhaps months:

A. 1/2 windows with the side air bags (this seems to stop orders in their TRACKS)

B. "Rubicon" model type in the 4-door configuration.

C. Hardtop.

D. "myGig" (whatever that is).

Have I left anything off?

Hopefully, potential customers who read this will be forewarned that the above items MAY delay their order by months . . . although even THAT seems unclear.



Take care.

Duane Behrens ("Perzuki")