2013 Wrangler Diesel Option?!
10-04-2011, 07:49 AM
#21
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It's an American vehicle (at least a vehicle sold in America) so there are a few certainties... one of which is that it will, inevitably, get bigger -- to fit our growing asses. When I park beside a TJ I am amazed at the size disparity between stock, similarly equipped, vehicles.
Now, for my very unpopular view:
When it comes to changing the current model offerings with a new/different engine and/or a truck option, you have to consider the two main decision drivers for the manufacturer; (1) Profitability, (2) Compliance. I don't think there are enough buyers for a diesel engine option to make it profitable for Chrysler -- I have no data, but I have been told that Chrysler/Jeep has done market research and this is why there is no diesel option (the VM motors -- particularly the 2.8L CRD -- are a hard sell to the lay consumer, that's why it was pulled from the Liberty lineup). If there was justifiable profitability in a diesel engine, you have to assume that there are compliance issues. The one thing that I can promise you in the present day... if there's even a slim profit margin, the Big Three will do it (if they can).
Regarding the truck. This is part what I have heard and part personal contention. The market it would fit in, especially when you assume the six-cylinder offerings amongst all manufacturers, is not saturated (in my mind). If it could be done at a similar price point to current JK/JKU... I think it will happen (I am thinking the truck configuration could be an option, around $3k, for two test years before becoming a fixture of the stable if it thrives). I say this because Jeep sales are projected to hit an all-time high this year and that type of year affords them the opportunity to make another big change to the lineup, like when the 4-door came to fore in 2007. That being said, I would NOT be surprised if Chrysler-proper didn't taint the Jeep name with an additional offering, enjoyed the crazy popularity and profits, and used those funds to sink into the struggling, Chrysler-branded garbage. After all, Eminem advertisements aren't cheap.
Now, for my very unpopular view:
When it comes to changing the current model offerings with a new/different engine and/or a truck option, you have to consider the two main decision drivers for the manufacturer; (1) Profitability, (2) Compliance. I don't think there are enough buyers for a diesel engine option to make it profitable for Chrysler -- I have no data, but I have been told that Chrysler/Jeep has done market research and this is why there is no diesel option (the VM motors -- particularly the 2.8L CRD -- are a hard sell to the lay consumer, that's why it was pulled from the Liberty lineup). If there was justifiable profitability in a diesel engine, you have to assume that there are compliance issues. The one thing that I can promise you in the present day... if there's even a slim profit margin, the Big Three will do it (if they can).
Regarding the truck. This is part what I have heard and part personal contention. The market it would fit in, especially when you assume the six-cylinder offerings amongst all manufacturers, is not saturated (in my mind). If it could be done at a similar price point to current JK/JKU... I think it will happen (I am thinking the truck configuration could be an option, around $3k, for two test years before becoming a fixture of the stable if it thrives). I say this because Jeep sales are projected to hit an all-time high this year and that type of year affords them the opportunity to make another big change to the lineup, like when the 4-door came to fore in 2007. That being said, I would NOT be surprised if Chrysler-proper didn't taint the Jeep name with an additional offering, enjoyed the crazy popularity and profits, and used those funds to sink into the struggling, Chrysler-branded garbage. After all, Eminem advertisements aren't cheap.
All manufacturers do market research, all the time. People's opinions and wants are changing pretty drastically right now. 10 years ago when gas was under $2 a gallon yea the vast majority of americans would have laughed at a diesel option. Today with gas being $3.50+ (dropped in the last few weeks though) people's opinions are much different. 10 years ago the likes of the fiat 500 and MB's smart car would have been complete flops here, yet today I'm seeing them everywhere all of the sudden. Scooter sales is the US are also at an all time high, along with smaller engined motorcycles.
BMW has been plastering the airwaves with their new diesel SUV, it'll be interesting to see how well it sells.
10-04-2011, 08:09 AM
#22
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Well, Compliance is exactly the reason there's a pretty good chance we're going to see a diesel in the next few years. The new fuel economy standards are going to be quite a jump it seems. I also think hybrid engines are in our future too.
All manufacturers do market research, all the time. People's opinions and wants are changing pretty drastically right now. 10 years ago when gas was under $2 a gallon yea the vast majority of americans would have laughed at a diesel option. Today with gas being $3.50+ (dropped in the last few weeks though) people's opinions are much different. 10 years ago the likes of the fiat 500 and MB's smart car would have been complete flops here, yet today I'm seeing them everywhere all of the sudden. Scooter sales is the US are also at an all time high, along with smaller engined motorcycles.
BMW has been plastering the airwaves with their new diesel SUV, it'll be interesting to see how well it sells.
All manufacturers do market research, all the time. People's opinions and wants are changing pretty drastically right now. 10 years ago when gas was under $2 a gallon yea the vast majority of americans would have laughed at a diesel option. Today with gas being $3.50+ (dropped in the last few weeks though) people's opinions are much different. 10 years ago the likes of the fiat 500 and MB's smart car would have been complete flops here, yet today I'm seeing them everywhere all of the sudden. Scooter sales is the US are also at an all time high, along with smaller engined motorcycles.
BMW has been plastering the airwaves with their new diesel SUV, it'll be interesting to see how well it sells.
As for the Fiat 500, SmartCar, and scooters... how many people in Oklahoma, Kansas, or Nebraska are driving these? The affluent are more open to change, but you'll have to pry the 10 mpg engine from the cold, dead hands of the farmer in Scottsbluff. BMW can advertise all they want, that doesn't mean that the average car buyer is in the market for an expensive, German-make.
Compliance opens the door for clean burning diesel technology, undoubtedly, but it also forces the hand of the technology behind traditional petrol engines. I don't think we are at the end of innovation and engineering for engines that run off of traditional petrol and I think that impending technology will push out the widespread adoption of smaller, more fuel efficient, diesel engines in vehicles like the Wrangler. There will be more diesel options in the future, I just don't think we're going to see it in the next two years. The term "hybrid" has a stigma that will never set well with the traditionalists.
I want a diesel option, believe me... I do. Badly. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
10-15-2011, 10:11 PM
#23
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10-15-2011, 11:46 PM
#25
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I don't disagree with anything you have said. I think the X-factor in this is (American) public opinion. Although diesel fuel sees less of the fluctuations of traditional petrol, it's routinely $4/gallon (here). The better fuel mileage is what will sell diesel technology to Americans looking at passenger cars, but I think that as long as there is a traditional petrol variant and those fuel prices are less than diesel... you're not going to see the shift necessary to validate widespread diesel offerings. If there is no option, then the American public will have to buy what is offered. Again, we're talking about the general person... not someone who is astute to diesel technology.
As for the Fiat 500, SmartCar, and scooters... how many people in Oklahoma, Kansas, or Nebraska are driving these? The affluent are more open to change, but you'll have to pry the 10 mpg engine from the cold, dead hands of the farmer in Scottsbluff. BMW can advertise all they want, that doesn't mean that the average car buyer is in the market for an expensive, German-make.
Compliance opens the door for clean burning diesel technology, undoubtedly, but it also forces the hand of the technology behind traditional petrol engines. I don't think we are at the end of innovation and engineering for engines that run off of traditional petrol and I think that impending technology will push out the widespread adoption of smaller, more fuel efficient, diesel engines in vehicles like the Wrangler. There will be more diesel options in the future, I just don't think we're going to see it in the next two years. The term "hybrid" has a stigma that will never set well with the traditionalists.
I want a diesel option, believe me... I do. Badly. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
As for the Fiat 500, SmartCar, and scooters... how many people in Oklahoma, Kansas, or Nebraska are driving these? The affluent are more open to change, but you'll have to pry the 10 mpg engine from the cold, dead hands of the farmer in Scottsbluff. BMW can advertise all they want, that doesn't mean that the average car buyer is in the market for an expensive, German-make.
Compliance opens the door for clean burning diesel technology, undoubtedly, but it also forces the hand of the technology behind traditional petrol engines. I don't think we are at the end of innovation and engineering for engines that run off of traditional petrol and I think that impending technology will push out the widespread adoption of smaller, more fuel efficient, diesel engines in vehicles like the Wrangler. There will be more diesel options in the future, I just don't think we're going to see it in the next two years. The term "hybrid" has a stigma that will never set well with the traditionalists.
I want a diesel option, believe me... I do. Badly. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
10-16-2011, 05:35 PM
#26
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The VM 2.8 was not pulled from the Liberty line-up because it was a "hard sale". Jeep actually had to increase production to meet demand. Those sold every single Liberty CRD they built, and most of them were bought as soon as they touched the lots, if not sooner. It was a HUGE success and to this day people will drive across country to get one.
Also, those engines were relatively bullet proof here in the States. The only issues with them came from the emmissions crap that the EPA forced Chrysler to add. The engines themselves were reliable and awesome. I owned two of them, and traded my last one for this JKU. It had 101,000 on the clock, didn't burn a drop of oil, didn't leak a drop of oil, and would pull 7,000 lbs. up a 5% grade at 60 MPH in overdrive. Those things are BEAST.
It's a known fact that if Jeep sold the CRD JK here in the States, people would flock to the dealerships like flies to cow sh*t. Jeep would have to hire people just to keep up with demand all over again.
If you want to know why it hasn't happened, it's 100% because of the government. The people at the EPA are too stupid to realize that a diesel using less fuel is actualy GOOD for the environment, not bad. The mileage offsets the small penalty in tailpipe output.
Also, those engines were relatively bullet proof here in the States. The only issues with them came from the emmissions crap that the EPA forced Chrysler to add. The engines themselves were reliable and awesome. I owned two of them, and traded my last one for this JKU. It had 101,000 on the clock, didn't burn a drop of oil, didn't leak a drop of oil, and would pull 7,000 lbs. up a 5% grade at 60 MPH in overdrive. Those things are BEAST.
It's a known fact that if Jeep sold the CRD JK here in the States, people would flock to the dealerships like flies to cow sh*t. Jeep would have to hire people just to keep up with demand all over again.
If you want to know why it hasn't happened, it's 100% because of the government. The people at the EPA are too stupid to realize that a diesel using less fuel is actualy GOOD for the environment, not bad. The mileage offsets the small penalty in tailpipe output.
10-17-2011, 01:46 AM
#27
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The new direct injection petrol engines are almost as fuel efficient as diesel engines and less expensive to manufacture. The new V6 petrol engine has been designed for direct injection at a later time.
10-17-2011, 08:15 AM
#28
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With these numbers there is really no argument on the diesel engine -
the Wrangler CRD achieves 28.3 mpg city and 36.2 mpg highway with the manual tranny and 3.21 axle or 25.3/32.7 with 3.73 axle, the heavier Unlimited model getting only marginally less. Those
Range from the 22.5-gallon tank sits just below 800 miles with the two-door Wrangler and around 730 miles for the Unlimited.
10-22-2011, 09:52 PM
#30
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3.0 VM Motori is a must for the JK US market. 2.8 CRD KJ diesels were sold out in USA & Canada very quick years ago and so will JK repeat that hystory. Sales will blow. 2012 will bring good news for torque fans of diesel and in 2013 I hope you can order a diesel Jk in the USA.
Until then
You can check directly with the VM Motori US dealer if they will do a swap for you instead of importing a 2,8 fromthe uk.
]h ttp://www.vmmotori.it/en/vmna.jsp
Cheers from a happy 2,8 crd Jku owner
John
EDIT:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-wrangler-race
This is a Jeep Wrangler JK with a 3,0 VM Motori 3 Liter engine.
Yes the engine I've been talking here and I believe will update the diesel JK for the US. This engine passed US tests and I do belive has all chances to move uphill your JK in the Rubicon Trail as of 2013. :-)) If this 3.0 VM Motori engine will pup-out then I will be happy to swap my yellow melon for another one which posses such a torque machine.
Until then
You can check directly with the VM Motori US dealer if they will do a swap for you instead of importing a 2,8 fromthe uk.
]h ttp://www.vmmotori.it/en/vmna.jsp
Cheers from a happy 2,8 crd Jku owner
John
EDIT:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-wrangler-race
This is a Jeep Wrangler JK with a 3,0 VM Motori 3 Liter engine.
Yes the engine I've been talking here and I believe will update the diesel JK for the US. This engine passed US tests and I do belive has all chances to move uphill your JK in the Rubicon Trail as of 2013. :-)) If this 3.0 VM Motori engine will pup-out then I will be happy to swap my yellow melon for another one which posses such a torque machine.
Last edited by armycop; 11-18-2011 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Completion