HEMI Experience
01-29-2009, 05:38 AM
#41
JK Super Freak
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You forgot to include the $5300 for the AEV kit. I don't think Camp (COP4x4), Gerry (SLC) etc have ever once stated that they're price matching do it yourself. The additional cost is for 35-50 hours of labor. Add all those things together plus in some cases the transportation to and from the shop and the experience of having done a few dozen under their belts and you have the $24 or so grand.
Personally, I wish i had the knowledge (or the cojones) to attempt it myself, guys like Ben and DSY are and have and it's turning out great. Unfortunately, I'm just not that guy and until my new house gets built I'm doing Jeep projects in a driveway full of rocks, which is bad enough to install a winch, reinstall a bumper, add leather, etc in 25 degree weather. So even if I wanted to, it's just not an option.
The way I see it there are 3 options:
1) Cheapest:
Buy the Hemi, Trans, AEV kit and all the extras and do it yourself. You can get a 6.1 or a 5.7 from a junk yard, there are some low mileage ones out there and save a few bucks. Personally I like the idea of having something new, with at least some warranty that it's not going to die in less than 12k miles.
2) Middle Ground in terms of pricing:
Buy the parts as above but have your favorite local 4x4 shop do the work. I've considered this one as I've got a great local shop and I know they could handle the task and do a great job of it (shout out to Appalachian Offroad. lol). This option almost certainly will come in cheaper than COP4x4 or SLC as well as save time transporting my JK to TX or AZ and back. The downside to this is that to my knowledge they haven't done one. Any tricks learned through experience would benefit the guy to come in after me, but I'd essentially be the guinea pig. Still this is a viable option as it's not all together different than the route Ben is taking, except that my helpers are paid by the hour. lol
3) Most Expensive:
Call up SLC or COP4x4, tell them what I want, have my JK picked up one day and several weeks later get it back as a whole different beast. With the higher pricetag you get a few things 1 and 2 just can't offer. The biggest of which is experience. It does count. I can't think of a single thing I ever tried once, that I was not able to do better the 2nd, 3rd and so on time around. These guys have done it in just about every configuration you can think of. I'm sure at this point the guys at SLC don't sit there with the AEV instructions printed out having 1 guy read them what step 43 is and trying to determine how best to do it. Plus, look at the pics they've all posted and the quality of the craftsmanship in them.
In the end it comes down to money. Can you find a way to beat their prices? Sure you can. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the person footing the bill. Think of it like getting a name brand instead of a generic. I might be willing to buy generic Cocoa Puffs, because if I hated them I'm out 3 bucks. I'm not convinced I'm willing to save a couple thousand at the expense of peace of mind.
PS: I just reread what you wrote GIJOE and you basically stated you can do a 6.1 swap for $12k. I'd like to see you do this without doing the swap yourself. $12k is cutting it close even with used parts. You can't really compare the cost of doing it yourself to paying someone else to do it of course it'll come out cheaper going with used parts and doing the labor yourself. Either way though, I'd like to watch your build thread.
Personally, I wish i had the knowledge (or the cojones) to attempt it myself, guys like Ben and DSY are and have and it's turning out great. Unfortunately, I'm just not that guy and until my new house gets built I'm doing Jeep projects in a driveway full of rocks, which is bad enough to install a winch, reinstall a bumper, add leather, etc in 25 degree weather. So even if I wanted to, it's just not an option.
The way I see it there are 3 options:
1) Cheapest:
Buy the Hemi, Trans, AEV kit and all the extras and do it yourself. You can get a 6.1 or a 5.7 from a junk yard, there are some low mileage ones out there and save a few bucks. Personally I like the idea of having something new, with at least some warranty that it's not going to die in less than 12k miles.
2) Middle Ground in terms of pricing:
Buy the parts as above but have your favorite local 4x4 shop do the work. I've considered this one as I've got a great local shop and I know they could handle the task and do a great job of it (shout out to Appalachian Offroad. lol). This option almost certainly will come in cheaper than COP4x4 or SLC as well as save time transporting my JK to TX or AZ and back. The downside to this is that to my knowledge they haven't done one. Any tricks learned through experience would benefit the guy to come in after me, but I'd essentially be the guinea pig. Still this is a viable option as it's not all together different than the route Ben is taking, except that my helpers are paid by the hour. lol
3) Most Expensive:
Call up SLC or COP4x4, tell them what I want, have my JK picked up one day and several weeks later get it back as a whole different beast. With the higher pricetag you get a few things 1 and 2 just can't offer. The biggest of which is experience. It does count. I can't think of a single thing I ever tried once, that I was not able to do better the 2nd, 3rd and so on time around. These guys have done it in just about every configuration you can think of. I'm sure at this point the guys at SLC don't sit there with the AEV instructions printed out having 1 guy read them what step 43 is and trying to determine how best to do it. Plus, look at the pics they've all posted and the quality of the craftsmanship in them.
In the end it comes down to money. Can you find a way to beat their prices? Sure you can. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the person footing the bill. Think of it like getting a name brand instead of a generic. I might be willing to buy generic Cocoa Puffs, because if I hated them I'm out 3 bucks. I'm not convinced I'm willing to save a couple thousand at the expense of peace of mind.
PS: I just reread what you wrote GIJOE and you basically stated you can do a 6.1 swap for $12k. I'd like to see you do this without doing the swap yourself. $12k is cutting it close even with used parts. You can't really compare the cost of doing it yourself to paying someone else to do it of course it'll come out cheaper going with used parts and doing the labor yourself. Either way though, I'd like to watch your build thread.
Last edited by SaharaBlackNo1; 01-29-2009 at 05:45 AM.
....very informative conversation going on here
02-04-2009, 08:46 AM
#44
JK Super Freak
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things started to get out of hand and personal attacks were coming. instead of posting in the open for all to see and ruin someones reputaion, we said our peace via PMs.
some good points came out of it though:
shop around before pulling the trigger on a hemi swap.
experience can pay off in the long run
shops have to do conversions to get experience
professional, friendly attitude towards possible customers is great advertisment
word of mouth is the best advertisement for a buisness - (or forum recommendations)
the more parts you buy on your own the lower the conversion price will be
you dont always get what you pay for
some good points came out of it though:
shop around before pulling the trigger on a hemi swap.
experience can pay off in the long run
shops have to do conversions to get experience
professional, friendly attitude towards possible customers is great advertisment
word of mouth is the best advertisement for a buisness - (or forum recommendations)
the more parts you buy on your own the lower the conversion price will be
you dont always get what you pay for
well to throw in my experience...I was VERY SATISFIED with Dan at BURNSVILLE OFFROADS install on my Jeep....they've cleared over 200 conversions world wide....and it SHOWS
02-19-2009, 05:35 PM
#46
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Don't care what anyone say's...experience and a quality product speak for themselves. Been on the phone with Eric...i think, from screamin lizard this week and he's been very helpful and informative over the phone.
I've had to deal with customers in my industry thinking cheaper contractors are just as good, not so. i've had to go bak and re-do other contractors sub par work, over and over. Meaning that customer.....usually paid atleast twice the price they would have if WE would have done it originally. And the one laughing is ME.....all the way to the bank.
I'm going with a quality, experienced company when i'm ready.....not Joe Bob down at the local Amoco, could it be done well sure, but i'm not bein the guinea pig for this one.
I've had to deal with customers in my industry thinking cheaper contractors are just as good, not so. i've had to go bak and re-do other contractors sub par work, over and over. Meaning that customer.....usually paid atleast twice the price they would have if WE would have done it originally. And the one laughing is ME.....all the way to the bank.
I'm going with a quality, experienced company when i'm ready.....not Joe Bob down at the local Amoco, could it be done well sure, but i'm not bein the guinea pig for this one.
02-04-2011, 08:25 PM
#49
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Crate 6.1L $7,690.00
"transmissions around $3,000
maybe another $2,000 for anything else not included. so just around $10,000 you can have new parts ready for install. a motor and tranny swap doesnt cost $10k. so you can do this cheaper. the sponors here dont like to hear about it though."
Lets see, $7690.00 + $3000.00 + ?2000.00? for anything else, maybe like the wireing harnes, raditor, starter, alternator, trans cooler, did I mention a $800.00 dollar tab for exaust, the kits from AEV are nearly 5k, and you still have some things to buy, which you will find out when you do yours. Lets see, 7690
3000
2000
carry the one,
$12,690.00 for "all you need to do the swap." Before the "other things"
Man, maybe you can do one for me, and your next quote is even better,
"it doesnt have to be new nor have one of the conversion sponors here install it. other shops that are not listed here will waranty it. shop around and you will find lower prices than listed here. but rule of thumb is get an engine same model year or newer. some states have laws stating this. mostly its due to emission regulations."
Maybe one of those other shops that dont have $1200 dollars a year to promote their awsome work doing Hemi Jeeps, uh, last time I checked, this is a site for JK's, seems like a good place to show off what you can do, but hey, thats just me.
"you dont have to stick with the stock programing either. take your ride to a dyno and pay to have it dynoed and programed. your timings will be better than stock. every engine and transmission is different. tune it right and you will have 0 issues. this can add to the cost as well since you have to pay for dyno time."
The motors wont run without our programming, unless you have a stand alone set up, and then you wont have little things like abs, all your lights that go off when you brake something, esp, well, every thing on your jeep. Last time I checked, the codes were still not availiable for the Hemi motors to run the new chrysler products, if they were, each one of my jeeps would have 18% more power, because I would buy all my costomers the new program, for free, Man, before you go spewing off this crap, get your facts straight, your post on page 5 just really pisses me off buddy, you say no offense to the sponsers here, then you offend all the motor guys 8 times in your post, you are right, prices will come down when the parts prices come down, but until then I will have to just try to survive on the "no demand" for Hemi jeeps. "take your ride to a dyno and pay to have it dynoed and programed" might just be the stupidest thing I have ever read, here or anywhere else, and keep your pm's to your self, I have wasted enough time responding to your uneducated disguised crap.
"transmissions around $3,000
maybe another $2,000 for anything else not included. so just around $10,000 you can have new parts ready for install. a motor and tranny swap doesnt cost $10k. so you can do this cheaper. the sponors here dont like to hear about it though."
Lets see, $7690.00 + $3000.00 + ?2000.00? for anything else, maybe like the wireing harnes, raditor, starter, alternator, trans cooler, did I mention a $800.00 dollar tab for exaust, the kits from AEV are nearly 5k, and you still have some things to buy, which you will find out when you do yours. Lets see, 7690
3000
2000
carry the one,
$12,690.00 for "all you need to do the swap." Before the "other things"
Man, maybe you can do one for me, and your next quote is even better,
"it doesnt have to be new nor have one of the conversion sponors here install it. other shops that are not listed here will waranty it. shop around and you will find lower prices than listed here. but rule of thumb is get an engine same model year or newer. some states have laws stating this. mostly its due to emission regulations."
Maybe one of those other shops that dont have $1200 dollars a year to promote their awsome work doing Hemi Jeeps, uh, last time I checked, this is a site for JK's, seems like a good place to show off what you can do, but hey, thats just me.
"you dont have to stick with the stock programing either. take your ride to a dyno and pay to have it dynoed and programed. your timings will be better than stock. every engine and transmission is different. tune it right and you will have 0 issues. this can add to the cost as well since you have to pay for dyno time."
The motors wont run without our programming, unless you have a stand alone set up, and then you wont have little things like abs, all your lights that go off when you brake something, esp, well, every thing on your jeep. Last time I checked, the codes were still not availiable for the Hemi motors to run the new chrysler products, if they were, each one of my jeeps would have 18% more power, because I would buy all my costomers the new program, for free, Man, before you go spewing off this crap, get your facts straight, your post on page 5 just really pisses me off buddy, you say no offense to the sponsers here, then you offend all the motor guys 8 times in your post, you are right, prices will come down when the parts prices come down, but until then I will have to just try to survive on the "no demand" for Hemi jeeps. "take your ride to a dyno and pay to have it dynoed and programed" might just be the stupidest thing I have ever read, here or anywhere else, and keep your pm's to your self, I have wasted enough time responding to your uneducated disguised crap.
02-06-2011, 06:59 AM
#50
JK Enthusiast
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I have a 6.1l and auto from Burnsville offroad and installed by them...
They offer the newer 5.7vvt with a manual and it is supposed to be faster and have better mpg compaired to the 6.1l...
I cannot say enough good things about Burnsville, they helped everytime I call and always call back if needed.
They sell just the kit too if you want to install it yourself.
I wanted a manual but the motor has too much power as is, I can spin the 37 " tires at will so I am happy with the auto..
They offer the newer 5.7vvt with a manual and it is supposed to be faster and have better mpg compaired to the 6.1l...
I cannot say enough good things about Burnsville, they helped everytime I call and always call back if needed.
They sell just the kit too if you want to install it yourself.
I wanted a manual but the motor has too much power as is, I can spin the 37 " tires at will so I am happy with the auto..