FYRLYT lights.. anyone have them?
10-10-2011, 10:53 PM
#21
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Hi Kojack:
Re - However to tout they are the brightest light is false
I can't see where the FYRLYT website said they were the brightest light, (As brightness is generally viewed a being subjective as against lumens per square meter)
However to make that statement you must have visibly tested these lights side by side and measured the lumen output of the light sources, then measured the focal points of each reflector and calculated the captive angle of the reflectors to get the total volume of the available light that is actually projected where you want it.
Then you must have proceeded to use a measured grid to calculate the total light actually captured and emitted within the useable beam, with a light meter of course, and then taken the lights out into the field and measured the total width and intensity at 400 metres as we did.
11-26-2011, 01:30 AM
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Differences of HID lamp decay against halogen
Hi Guys. The FYRLYT does actually have a higher lumen (5000L) output than all current commercially factory fitted HIDs available. Here is some data for you to assess things for yourselves. I have placed most of this info in response to viewers on a 4x4 forum in Australia and thought I would share it with you. In total so far, over 5000 have viewed it and nobody has an argument to support any other advertised data.
HID real Lumen outputs and what your not being told.
All 35 watt units measure watts OUTPUT of ballast to lamp, OEM or Aftermarket (China) Note INPUT to 35watt units is approx 42 watts.
Average lumen output = 2800 /3200L
Osram and Phillips / OEM have approximately 90 lumens watt output where as lamps made in China are in the range of 75 /85 lumen watt output.
All HIDs ABOVE 35 watt. EG: /50w /70w /100w measure INPUT to ballast and not OUTPUT, therefore to get watts to the lamp x 80% ( 20% ballast losses) to get approx watts: EG: 50w input x 80% = 40w to lamp x approx 85% Lumen / watts (China) = 3400Lumen output, not 5000Lumens plus as some claim.
70w x 80% = 56 watts x 85% L/W 4760Lumens output, not 6500Lumens as claimed
100watt x 80% =80 watts x 85L/w =approx 7000 Lumen (102.3 watts INPUT as tested by me)
It appears everybody in advertising and on these forums just grabs the stated watts INPUT or OUTPUT,( who cares, nobody will notice) and multiplies it X Osram OEM HID efficiency of 90 Lumen/watts to get a fictitious number that sounds good. They neglect to include the ballast losses in the quoted HID sizes above the 35 watt units
From your base lumen output from a 35watt Hid of 4300 kelvin your lumen output (intensity) will decrease by approx 5% per 1000 kelvin upwards on top of the previous calculations.
These numbers vary slightly due to manufacturing tolerances but close enough to do your own calculations
Info on advertised and actual data on 100 watt HID kits.
I have just purchased and done some tests on an Australian supplied 100watt HID kit. It is advertised as having a current draw of 7.8amps @13.2v = 102.96 watts input from the battery to the ballast. Prior to purchase I asked the vendor if this constant current draw was correct, and was told it was more like 7.3 amps. = 96.36watts input. ( The ones supplied to me draw a constant 102.3watts input) I also asked if the lab sphere tests were done in a NATA ( National Association of Testing Authorities) approved lab. The reply was " nobody asks those questions". I then asked do they put out the stated 9,985 lumens, and the reply was " well your eyes can play tricks on you"
But I purchased them anyway as I was curious as to the output.
When I do my calculations with their stated 80% ballast efficiency I only get 81.84 watts OUTPUT to the lamp and at a lumen output of approx 85L/w I get lamp an output of 6,956Lumens.
At this point I emailed the manufacturer (not the distributor) and asked if the input of my ballasts were correct, " they said it was ". Also I asked the output of the ballast, and was told "75watts".
This gives a ballast conversion of 75% =102.3 x.75% = 76.72 watts x .85L/w =6521Lumens not 9,985L. They would have to be getting 130L/w to put out 9.985Lumens as claimed.
Hope this helps clear up the claims of HID outputs
HID real Lumen outputs and what your not being told.
All 35 watt units measure watts OUTPUT of ballast to lamp, OEM or Aftermarket (China) Note INPUT to 35watt units is approx 42 watts.
Average lumen output = 2800 /3200L
Osram and Phillips / OEM have approximately 90 lumens watt output where as lamps made in China are in the range of 75 /85 lumen watt output.
All HIDs ABOVE 35 watt. EG: /50w /70w /100w measure INPUT to ballast and not OUTPUT, therefore to get watts to the lamp x 80% ( 20% ballast losses) to get approx watts: EG: 50w input x 80% = 40w to lamp x approx 85% Lumen / watts (China) = 3400Lumen output, not 5000Lumens plus as some claim.
70w x 80% = 56 watts x 85% L/W 4760Lumens output, not 6500Lumens as claimed
100watt x 80% =80 watts x 85L/w =approx 7000 Lumen (102.3 watts INPUT as tested by me)
It appears everybody in advertising and on these forums just grabs the stated watts INPUT or OUTPUT,( who cares, nobody will notice) and multiplies it X Osram OEM HID efficiency of 90 Lumen/watts to get a fictitious number that sounds good. They neglect to include the ballast losses in the quoted HID sizes above the 35 watt units
From your base lumen output from a 35watt Hid of 4300 kelvin your lumen output (intensity) will decrease by approx 5% per 1000 kelvin upwards on top of the previous calculations.
These numbers vary slightly due to manufacturing tolerances but close enough to do your own calculations
Info on advertised and actual data on 100 watt HID kits.
I have just purchased and done some tests on an Australian supplied 100watt HID kit. It is advertised as having a current draw of 7.8amps @13.2v = 102.96 watts input from the battery to the ballast. Prior to purchase I asked the vendor if this constant current draw was correct, and was told it was more like 7.3 amps. = 96.36watts input. ( The ones supplied to me draw a constant 102.3watts input) I also asked if the lab sphere tests were done in a NATA ( National Association of Testing Authorities) approved lab. The reply was " nobody asks those questions". I then asked do they put out the stated 9,985 lumens, and the reply was " well your eyes can play tricks on you"
But I purchased them anyway as I was curious as to the output.
When I do my calculations with their stated 80% ballast efficiency I only get 81.84 watts OUTPUT to the lamp and at a lumen output of approx 85L/w I get lamp an output of 6,956Lumens.
At this point I emailed the manufacturer (not the distributor) and asked if the input of my ballasts were correct, " they said it was ". Also I asked the output of the ballast, and was told "75watts".
This gives a ballast conversion of 75% =102.3 x.75% = 76.72 watts x .85L/w =6521Lumens not 9,985L. They would have to be getting 130L/w to put out 9.985Lumens as claimed.
Hope this helps clear up the claims of HID outputs
That is why in Europe when an OEM HID headlamp needs replacing it is required to replace both lamps even though one is still working. This is due to the colour change as they also go up in kelvin ( get bluer) as they decay and the fact that the old one will be approximately 30% duller than the new one. The car would not pass EU requirements.
This why people complain their new HID replacement lamp is not the same colour as the old one that is still going even though they are rated the same kelvin when new.
EG a 5000 lumen halogen will still be giving you 5000 lumen output for its total life and give the same colour (kelvin). So when you do replace a lamp it will match the old one.
A 70 watt HID @ 80% ballast efficiency with 56 watts to lamp x 85 l/w new = approx 4760 lumen output rapidly decaying towards 30% decay loss = most of life output of around 3400 lumens.
Thanks again.
Last edited by Curious; 11-27-2011 at 01:41 AM.
01-09-2012, 02:59 AM
#23
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It is worth noting also that HID lamps lumen output decays rapidly in the first 200 hours due to deterioration of some of the chemicals used and then continues on to approx 30% total loss over the life of the lamp. Where as a halogen lumen output remains near enough the same for its full life due to the halogen regeneration process.
That is why in Europe when an OEM HID headlamp needs replacing it is required to replace both lamps even though one is still working. This is due to the colour change as they also go up in kelvin ( get bluer) as they decay and the fact that the old one will be approximately 30% duller than the new one. The car would not pass EU requirements.
This why people complain their new HID replacement lamp is not the same colour as the old one that is still going even though they are rated the same kelvin when new.
EG a 5000 lumen halogen will still be giving you 5000 lumen output for its total life and give the same colour (kelvin). So when you do replace a lamp it will match the old one.
A 70 watt HID @ 80% ballast efficiency with 56 watts to lamp x 85 l/w new = approx 4760 lumen output rapidly decaying towards 30% decay loss = most of life output of around 3400 lumens.
Thanks again.
That is why in Europe when an OEM HID headlamp needs replacing it is required to replace both lamps even though one is still working. This is due to the colour change as they also go up in kelvin ( get bluer) as they decay and the fact that the old one will be approximately 30% duller than the new one. The car would not pass EU requirements.
This why people complain their new HID replacement lamp is not the same colour as the old one that is still going even though they are rated the same kelvin when new.
EG a 5000 lumen halogen will still be giving you 5000 lumen output for its total life and give the same colour (kelvin). So when you do replace a lamp it will match the old one.
A 70 watt HID @ 80% ballast efficiency with 56 watts to lamp x 85 l/w new = approx 4760 lumen output rapidly decaying towards 30% decay loss = most of life output of around 3400 lumens.
Thanks again.
Re colour change. The chemical elements of the HID lamp gas make up that gives some yellow colour to the hid output starts deteriorating within the first 10 hours (approx) which moves the kelvin rating higher.
Gets whiter/ bluer.
Re lumen output reduction. The pointed electrode ends burn their tips off quite rapidly so within only a few hours the arc spreads itself over a larger tip reducing the output intensity by about 10% then proceeds to decay to over 30% over the remaining average life of the lamp.
Thanks Guys
01-19-2012, 11:55 AM
#24
JK Junkie
Originally Posted by Curious
I have been asked what actually decays in the HID lamp so to clarify the above.
Re colour change. The chemical elements of the HID lamp gas make up that gives some yellow colour to the hid output starts deteriorating within the first 10 hours (approx) which moves the kelvin rating higher.
Gets whiter/ bluer.
Re lumen output reduction. The pointed electrode ends burn their tips off quite rapidly so within only a few hours the arc spreads itself over a larger tip reducing the output intensity by about 10% then proceeds to decay to over 30% over the remaining average life of the lamp.
Thanks Guys
02-24-2012, 02:14 PM
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Blue filters test
Hi Everybody
Something of interest.
Earlier I mentioned blue filters and blue coated lamps and how they affect light output.
These tests are relevant to normal driving conditions.
Filters of any sort only block the wavelength output required to leave the colour wanted.
This of course means you lose some of your original output and if you block the yellow (long wavelength) part of the spectrum (Halogen) to get more blue (short wave length) you lose some of the long wavelengths which give you your penetration (distance).
This test is relevant for all halogens with blue clip on filters or *blue coated globes.
For the test I used a new Osram / FYRLYT - 150 watt 5000 Lumen 12 volt halogen lamp in a Fyrlyt driving light.
A Lightforce crystal blue filter .
A Hella Rally 4000 blue filter (A bit darker blue than the LF crystal)
The numbers are relative lux numbers only for comparison purposes using a light meter at 5 meters
Light only / single clear lens = 1505 = 100% lumen output
1/. Second clear filter = 1250 = 83% lumen output
2/. Second Crystal Blue filter = 1040 = 69% lumen output
3/. Second Hella blue filter = 700 = 47% lumen output
It is notable that even a clear filter costs you 17% due to reflection, refraction and transmission losses and if you colour that filter light blue you lose another 15 % / 17% + 15% = (total loss 31%) or if you go for a darker blue filter you lose 17% + 36% = (total loss 53%) NOTE: Changes in the filter colour will change the percentages.
Now lux at target (light intensity) for a non- parallel beam (conical) will reduce by the inverse square of the distance….. So if you double the distance the light intensity will be 1/ (2^2) = ¼ of that measured at the original distance…. This is simply due to the fact that if you double the size of a circle the area is 4 times the size…… and lux is a measurement of Lumens/unit area (m^2). So when you read light charts from manufacturers you can quickly work out who is telling the truth…. That is if their Lux reading at 400 metres is not ¼ of that at 200 metres…… They are selling a laser as a driving light or it is not a true representation.
As we know light travels by the inverse law so to lose 50% of your output means the original distance will be reduced. EG: if your light shines 400 metres with no filter, it is reduced to approx 300 metres with a dark blue filter.
The blue light will appear brighter due to glare because the rods in your eyes do not process blue light very well and makes it harder to focus on an object plus it will have far less penetration especially in fog and rain due to the dispersion of the blue wavelengths, up to 16 times more than yellow.
*Blue globes behave in the same way when you add colours to them but the 17 % clear lens loss is not included in the losses.
I have looked at some lamps and some suppliers of very expensive blue globes (Up to ($80 pair) are quoting better distance and clarity however the same 55watt lamp gives from 1600 lumens down to 1000 lumens as the colour gets darker blue. Makes it difficult to see how you can see further with less light.
The above test using the FYRLYT was also done at 15 metres and also done using a bare lamp only @ 900 mm and achieved similar relative numbers.
So if you want blue the consequences are lower lumen output.
Something of interest.
Earlier I mentioned blue filters and blue coated lamps and how they affect light output.
These tests are relevant to normal driving conditions.
Filters of any sort only block the wavelength output required to leave the colour wanted.
This of course means you lose some of your original output and if you block the yellow (long wavelength) part of the spectrum (Halogen) to get more blue (short wave length) you lose some of the long wavelengths which give you your penetration (distance).
This test is relevant for all halogens with blue clip on filters or *blue coated globes.
For the test I used a new Osram / FYRLYT - 150 watt 5000 Lumen 12 volt halogen lamp in a Fyrlyt driving light.
A Lightforce crystal blue filter .
A Hella Rally 4000 blue filter (A bit darker blue than the LF crystal)
The numbers are relative lux numbers only for comparison purposes using a light meter at 5 meters
Light only / single clear lens = 1505 = 100% lumen output
1/. Second clear filter = 1250 = 83% lumen output
2/. Second Crystal Blue filter = 1040 = 69% lumen output
3/. Second Hella blue filter = 700 = 47% lumen output
It is notable that even a clear filter costs you 17% due to reflection, refraction and transmission losses and if you colour that filter light blue you lose another 15 % / 17% + 15% = (total loss 31%) or if you go for a darker blue filter you lose 17% + 36% = (total loss 53%) NOTE: Changes in the filter colour will change the percentages.
Now lux at target (light intensity) for a non- parallel beam (conical) will reduce by the inverse square of the distance….. So if you double the distance the light intensity will be 1/ (2^2) = ¼ of that measured at the original distance…. This is simply due to the fact that if you double the size of a circle the area is 4 times the size…… and lux is a measurement of Lumens/unit area (m^2). So when you read light charts from manufacturers you can quickly work out who is telling the truth…. That is if their Lux reading at 400 metres is not ¼ of that at 200 metres…… They are selling a laser as a driving light or it is not a true representation.
As we know light travels by the inverse law so to lose 50% of your output means the original distance will be reduced. EG: if your light shines 400 metres with no filter, it is reduced to approx 300 metres with a dark blue filter.
The blue light will appear brighter due to glare because the rods in your eyes do not process blue light very well and makes it harder to focus on an object plus it will have far less penetration especially in fog and rain due to the dispersion of the blue wavelengths, up to 16 times more than yellow.
*Blue globes behave in the same way when you add colours to them but the 17 % clear lens loss is not included in the losses.
I have looked at some lamps and some suppliers of very expensive blue globes (Up to ($80 pair) are quoting better distance and clarity however the same 55watt lamp gives from 1600 lumens down to 1000 lumens as the colour gets darker blue. Makes it difficult to see how you can see further with less light.
The above test using the FYRLYT was also done at 15 metres and also done using a bare lamp only @ 900 mm and achieved similar relative numbers.
So if you want blue the consequences are lower lumen output.
02-24-2012, 03:03 PM
#26
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So curious do you have any kind of info like the stuff you have on halogens and hid's but on the newer led lights. They are very new and from the looks of it they are much brighter but much like a high kelvin rating it can appear brighter but not give the same visible light output.
02-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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So curious do you have any kind of info like the stuff you have on halogens and hid's but on the newer led lights. They are very new and from the looks of it they are much brighter but much like a high kelvin rating it can appear brighter but not give the same visible light output.
i will post something when I think I have something worthy of your time.
Thanks
02-26-2012, 03:56 AM
#28
JK Enthusiast
I'm going to throw my 2 cents. I have tried everything & here is what I came to find in non-technical terms. Halogen lights are the bottom of the barrel. Hid will be brighter, that's is a fact. Most hid will claim to put out 2000 lumens however that is what the ballast produces & with the correct reflector ( housing) that translates to about 1300 lumens of useable light which is still pretty good. Another thing is hid is also uncontrolled light which means the light spreads out everywhere, not in a beam pattern Most LED lights like rigid & vision x measure their lights in useable light, not what is produced which is why LED appears to be brighter.
2000 lumen hid produces 1300 lumens of useable, uncontrolled light.
2000 lumen led produces 2000 lumens of useable, controlled light
Here's my hid 6000k lights (claims 2000 lumens) vs led (2000 lumens)
Also the led is a 10" spot/flood combo
2000 lumen hid produces 1300 lumens of useable, uncontrolled light.
2000 lumen led produces 2000 lumens of useable, controlled light
Here's my hid 6000k lights (claims 2000 lumens) vs led (2000 lumens)
Also the led is a 10" spot/flood combo
02-26-2012, 11:38 AM
#29
JK Junkie
Originally Posted by Curious
Hi Everybody
Something of interest.
Earlier I mentioned blue filters and blue coated lamps and how they affect light output.
These tests are relevant to normal driving conditions.
Filters of any sort only block the wavelength output required to leave the colour wanted.
This of course means you lose some of your original output and if you block the yellow (long wavelength) part of the spectrum (Halogen) to get more blue (short wave length) you lose some of the long wavelengths which give you your penetration (distance).
This test is relevant for all halogens with blue clip on filters or *blue coated globes.
For the test I used a new Osram / FYRLYT - 150 watt 5000 Lumen 12 volt halogen lamp in a Fyrlyt driving light.
A Lightforce crystal blue filter .
A Hella Rally 4000 blue filter (A bit darker blue than the LF crystal)
The numbers are relative lux numbers only for comparison purposes using a light meter at 5 meters
Light only / single clear lens = 1505 = 100% lumen output
1/. Second clear filter = 1250 = 83% lumen output
2/. Second Crystal Blue filter = 1040 = 69% lumen output
3/. Second Hella blue filter = 700 = 47% lumen output
It is notable that even a clear filter costs you 17% due to reflection, refraction and transmission losses and if you colour that filter light blue you lose another 15 % / 17% + 15% = (total loss 31%) or if you go for a darker blue filter you lose 17% + 36% = (total loss 53%) NOTE: Changes in the filter colour will change the percentages.
Now lux at target (light intensity) for a non- parallel beam (conical) will reduce by the inverse square of the distance….. So if you double the distance the light intensity will be 1/ (2^2) = ¼ of that measured at the original distance…. This is simply due to the fact that if you double the size of a circle the area is 4 times the size…… and lux is a measurement of Lumens/unit area (m^2). So when you read light charts from manufacturers you can quickly work out who is telling the truth…. That is if their Lux reading at 400 metres is not ¼ of that at 200 metres…… They are selling a laser as a driving light or it is not a true representation.
As we know light travels by the inverse law so to lose 50% of your output means the original distance will be reduced. EG: if your light shines 400 metres with no filter, it is reduced to approx 300 metres with a dark blue filter.
The blue light will appear brighter due to glare because the rods in your eyes do not process blue light very well and makes it harder to focus on an object plus it will have far less penetration especially in fog and rain due to the dispersion of the blue wavelengths, up to 16 times more than yellow.
*Blue globes behave in the same way when you add colours to them but the 17 % clear lens loss is not included in the losses.
I have looked at some lamps and some suppliers of very expensive blue globes (Up to ($80 pair) are quoting better distance and clarity however the same 55watt lamp gives from 1600 lumens down to 1000 lumens as the colour gets darker blue. Makes it difficult to see how you can see further with less light.
The above test using the FYRLYT was also done at 15 metres and also done using a bare lamp only @ 900 mm and achieved similar relative numbers.
So if you want blue the consequences are lower lumen output.
Something of interest.
Earlier I mentioned blue filters and blue coated lamps and how they affect light output.
These tests are relevant to normal driving conditions.
Filters of any sort only block the wavelength output required to leave the colour wanted.
This of course means you lose some of your original output and if you block the yellow (long wavelength) part of the spectrum (Halogen) to get more blue (short wave length) you lose some of the long wavelengths which give you your penetration (distance).
This test is relevant for all halogens with blue clip on filters or *blue coated globes.
For the test I used a new Osram / FYRLYT - 150 watt 5000 Lumen 12 volt halogen lamp in a Fyrlyt driving light.
A Lightforce crystal blue filter .
A Hella Rally 4000 blue filter (A bit darker blue than the LF crystal)
The numbers are relative lux numbers only for comparison purposes using a light meter at 5 meters
Light only / single clear lens = 1505 = 100% lumen output
1/. Second clear filter = 1250 = 83% lumen output
2/. Second Crystal Blue filter = 1040 = 69% lumen output
3/. Second Hella blue filter = 700 = 47% lumen output
It is notable that even a clear filter costs you 17% due to reflection, refraction and transmission losses and if you colour that filter light blue you lose another 15 % / 17% + 15% = (total loss 31%) or if you go for a darker blue filter you lose 17% + 36% = (total loss 53%) NOTE: Changes in the filter colour will change the percentages.
Now lux at target (light intensity) for a non- parallel beam (conical) will reduce by the inverse square of the distance….. So if you double the distance the light intensity will be 1/ (2^2) = ¼ of that measured at the original distance…. This is simply due to the fact that if you double the size of a circle the area is 4 times the size…… and lux is a measurement of Lumens/unit area (m^2). So when you read light charts from manufacturers you can quickly work out who is telling the truth…. That is if their Lux reading at 400 metres is not ¼ of that at 200 metres…… They are selling a laser as a driving light or it is not a true representation.
As we know light travels by the inverse law so to lose 50% of your output means the original distance will be reduced. EG: if your light shines 400 metres with no filter, it is reduced to approx 300 metres with a dark blue filter.
The blue light will appear brighter due to glare because the rods in your eyes do not process blue light very well and makes it harder to focus on an object plus it will have far less penetration especially in fog and rain due to the dispersion of the blue wavelengths, up to 16 times more than yellow.
*Blue globes behave in the same way when you add colours to them but the 17 % clear lens loss is not included in the losses.
I have looked at some lamps and some suppliers of very expensive blue globes (Up to ($80 pair) are quoting better distance and clarity however the same 55watt lamp gives from 1600 lumens down to 1000 lumens as the colour gets darker blue. Makes it difficult to see how you can see further with less light.
The above test using the FYRLYT was also done at 15 metres and also done using a bare lamp only @ 900 mm and achieved similar relative numbers.
So if you want blue the consequences are lower lumen output.